Is the Giant's Hole round trip suitable for beginners? What grade is the hardest section, and how long does the trip normally take? Also, if you abseil to avoid the high-level traverse above the crab walk, does this make it any easier?

I did it as my first trip. It is quite wet at the windpipe - if they are wearing decent gear, and you can exit quickly it shouldn't be too bad. Abseiling will make it a bit easier, but depends how hard they find the crabwalk. Grade 4 maybe - mainly from the windpipe, although watch the roped climb above Eating House, which can be nasty if they aren't very confident.
When we have done it with beginners it normally takes about 4hrs, but has taken a lot longer if a) you get lost , and b) the beginner is really slow.
Another decent but shorter trip is the upper series in Giants - takes up to 2 hrs with beginners but worth doing.

My personal preference would be to go with a couple of experienced cavers and the novice and 'shepherd' them down the crabwalk climb instead of having to carry tackle and faff about rigging, then getting the novice to abseil- could prove more dangerous if they f**k up. Plus a novice is likely to be getting cold by that time and should better keep moving.

I recently took my mate who's never caved before on the round trip and he found it dead easy- being stick thin helped. A bit of encouragement on the roped climbs above the eating house would be wiorthwhile as Brendan says- maybe even climbing up you aswell as the rope...

Take a ladder and lifeline for Garlands pot, it's so much quicker and easier than abseiling and prusiking...

The round trip is OK for novii but I've had the comment from some newish cavers 'this is a great trip, but if it had been my first trip it would have been too much'. The Crabwalk is pretty tedious and the windpipe unpleasant - especially without decent gear. For the drop back into the Crabwalk, it takes maybe a minute to rig a lifeline off either the stonking thread or the shiny p-bolts so I disagree with Underground there - it's hard to actually fall but ropes make numpties less scared. Also means that if they go wibbly on the rope climbs you've got some string with you

Upper series is probably overall a better bet - let them peer down Garlands and know that they've got LOTS more good cave to do! Or else use another cave - we've used Jug Holes, Carlswark, Gautrie's etc. - not as good for cavers but gives people an idea what it's all about.

Am I right in guessing you've not done the trip yourself? (as you ask how hard it is). If you don't know the way it's worth having a look for yourself first 'cos it's not nice to take numpties into the Chamber of Horrors
unless you don't want them back

Hope that helps

mudmonkey said:

For the drop back into the Crabwalk, it takes maybe a minute to rig a lifeline off either the stonking thread or the shiny p-bolts so I disagree with Underground there - it's hard to actually fall but ropes make numpties less scared.

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Yes, fair enough it would be quick to rig a lifeline to a battery belt- however mich's original post refers to abseiling, so I assumed it means 'abseiling using a Stop'. In that scenario your novice has to put on their harness and chest strap and correctly attach and operate a Stop... Which can be a fiddly task to the uninitiated.

Maybe you should be asking our mate Dave- who we ran to the East Canal and back on ladders as his first trip... :roll: Didn't put him off, although I think he was only just able to move when we got to the pub

you could put on a diaper (sp?) sling in addition to the belt. for the squirm down that section it wouldnt be too awful, and you could put a safety line on them as well. it's probable that everyone will abseil so you would need double the rope to do a pull thru' so not much more to carry and the newby gets to experience an abseil safe in the knowledge they have a back up.

Many thanks for all your info.
Sounds like Carlswark might be better for a first trip, followed by Giants if they're keen. And yes, a recce first sounds a good idea - I seem to remember that it's easy to miss the turn R to the windpipe.

as soon as youve got up maggins...through the crawl and standing, its the first big rift on your right....but i always walk straight past it!!!

For the Giants roundtrip it really depends on the individual's. I took some novices down a couple of years ago and one of the lads was game for almost anything. He had done bungee jumps, abseiling, climbing etc. without turning a hair but when we got to the windpipe he nearly freaked. We managed to encourage him through but he was very distressed and says he will never go caving again
Also the other week we had a new member who had previoulsy caved although he had lapsed for a couple of years. The trip ended up being a bit too much for him and we had to let him go in front to set a very slow pace. Be wary the trip is harder than you think for novices. :roll:

we got to the windpipe he nearly freaked. We managed to encourage him through but he was very distressed and says he will never go caving again

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I had a very similar experience with a friend of mine. Very experienced climber and Mountaineer, Up for it and enjoyed garlands (water was quite high). Got beyond the ladder in the crabwalk and he was wet and cold - and generally not enjoying himself. He then revealed he cant swim and doesnt really like water. Oh well great - now you tell me. Then I got a bit lost (missed the turning right just after the climb out of the eating house). Then, unlike the only time id been before - the wind pipe was nearly full. about 6 inch air space. He totally freaked. Coaxed him through telling him we were 10 mins from surface this way or hour and a half back the way we came. Dummy was well and truly spat out and he will probably never go caving again. I wished Id just done the upper series and let him peer over Garlands.
That way it leaves them wanting more.

re: SamT's experienced mate. my friends new bloke, experrienced walker, well into climbing, bottled the vice. apparently there was plenty of water but she went up and down it a couple of times times trying to coax him.

Tend to agree with what most people have said here. I took a friend who was a novice down Giant's, heading towards Geology Pot via Garlands, Crabwalk and the traverse across the roof of the streamway.
Things were fine to and down Garlands........bit demanding for him through the Crabwalk (especially at the Vice) after all, he is 6 foot something, but still enjoying himself and wanted to go on. Through Razor Edge, Comic Act, Great Relief Passage and through the tube to the roof of the streamway.

All was fine upto about midway along the traverse when he looked down..............
:shock:
It is a long drop though...............

Sounds like I escaped lightly on my first trip there. I loved it, no problems with the vice or windpipe. Although one of the 'experienced' people with me spent 5 minutes trying to get through the vice

I faffed around for ages the first time I did the vice. Went down last week and coming out I didn't realise I'd done it until I got to Garlands, though it was too easy to be the vice.

jon, thats because youre not being as well fed at your mums!!