Hidden Earth - Welsh Miners, A Minutes Silence?
- Thread starter Wolfart
- Start date
moorebooks
Active member
It has been suggested elsewhere on this forum that a minutes silence should take place at the conference in honour of the 4 welsh miners that died last week certainly something I would support
Mike
Mike
Billy Butcombe
New member
Seconded
Mark
Well-known member
moorebooks said:
Not for me, I think the minutes silence is an uncomfortable procedure that doesn't contribute anything to the families or deceased miners. these guys were doing their job, someone did it wrong, they died, end of story. This incident is in no way related to Hidden Earth or caving in general and should be left to those who knew the miners.
Peter Burgess
New member
A minute's silence as far as I am concerned is just as much for our own edification as it is for anything else. As a period for quiet reflection, whether collectively or individually, on the dangers of working underground whether for a living or as part of our own pastime, I am all for it. Those who do not wish to participate are, of course, at liberty to be somewhere else at the time, and I respect people just as much for not taking part as for wanting to be there. However, I would not want to share a period of quiet reflection with someone who felt uncomfortable about it.
I personally would probably not have suggested it for Hidden Earth, but if it happens, I will want to take part.
I personally would probably not have suggested it for Hidden Earth, but if it happens, I will want to take part.
TheBitterEnd
Well-known member
Mark said:
I doubt anyone feels totally "comfortable" during a minute?s silence; it is there to make us stop and think about uncomfortable things, and show respect and camaraderie.
The subject could be very fraught and contentious: why focus on this group of miners above others who died underground recently (for example Artur Kozlowski). Then, does it become a regular Hidden Earth event remembering those who died underground during the year?
SamT
Moderator
Hmm - possibly controversial.
I have sympathy with the origin of wolfarts original idea, but as others have stated, why choose the miners as a catalyst over other departed brethren.
So, the logical extension is to have a minutes silence for all those deceased in the past year, and further more, to have one each and every year (on the basis that unfortunately, there will be most likely further loss of life underground, somehow, somewhere in the following year).
Underground exploration is a hazardous pursuit, hazards that we are all aware of and quietly accept as part of our past time. HE for me is a celebration of this past time, and a time when, should one feel a loss of a friend, raise a toast to them, either quietly, to ones self, or perhaps with a small group of friends.
Having an annual minutes silence at either the opening/closing ceremony (half way through the stomp?) would bring are rather sombre atmosphere to what should be a celebration of underground exploration.
Do mountaineering/alpine/climbing clubs have a minutes silence for fallen climbers, I've never heard of it done. Its just an accepted part of the sport.
Somehow, having some sort of mass minutes silence is too prescriptive. Peter states that those who do not wish to partake can arrange to be else where, but its an un-escapable truth that in reality, this would be very hard to organise and anyone 'caught' in the wrong place would have to make the choice of either be forced to take part out of respect or carry on talking, which would of course be an unpleasant experience for all concerned. Plus those not wishing to take part would be in some way labelled, visibly leaving the room for instance.
My personal opinion is that, on the grounds that if one is held this year, one should be held every year and that I don't think this should happen, I'm against the idea.
Duncan Price
Active member
A more appropriate tribute would perhaps be a toast "to absent friends" at the conference dinner?
cap n chris
Well-known member
What Sam said.
Mark said:
As to a minute silence I have no comment.
As to getting it wrong.
There is a ongoing HMI of Mines and police enquiry in hand. Lets let them come to a conclusion.
Any speculation on this forum would be very wrong.
Anybody who knows anything about working in small private mines knows that there could be any number of reasons.
Jopo
SpeleoTrog
Member
Mark said:
Many SWCC members knew those miners and their families and would be very grateful for the mark of respect and sympathy. If it can be done in New Zealand, surely an event in Wales which will be attended by some of the rescuer teams and friends of the miners is even more relevant
ogof addict
Member
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=12509.0
personally i think this is a much more fitting way to commemorate a man's achievements.
i have spend quite a few years voluntarily working at the british beer festival. at the staff party at the close of the festival, a tankard is presented to the volunteer who was voted for by the other volunteers as having done great service/really made a difference. the tankard belonged to a departed friend, it was auctioned for charity at the festival after his death, and now serves as a tribute to him and recognises others' acheivements. a minute silence doesnt seem to do very much, whereas in this case, the tankard does very well. there must be some good way we can remember those who have died
wasnt there also a lady caver diver who died this year? if there is to be any sort of official HE thing, it should be for all those who have died, with also a thought given to those involved in the rescue and recovery
personally i think this is a much more fitting way to commemorate a man's achievements.
i have spend quite a few years voluntarily working at the british beer festival. at the staff party at the close of the festival, a tankard is presented to the volunteer who was voted for by the other volunteers as having done great service/really made a difference. the tankard belonged to a departed friend, it was auctioned for charity at the festival after his death, and now serves as a tribute to him and recognises others' acheivements. a minute silence doesnt seem to do very much, whereas in this case, the tankard does very well. there must be some good way we can remember those who have died
wasnt there also a lady caver diver who died this year? if there is to be any sort of official HE thing, it should be for all those who have died, with also a thought given to those involved in the rescue and recovery
I'm not up for the silence thing. As an alternative why not hold a collection, those who wish to contribute can and those that choose not to can keep their anonymity.
If the collection box is at a static location a book of condolences could be signed by those who wish to.
T pot
If the collection box is at a static location a book of condolences could be signed by those who wish to.
T pot
moorebooks
Active member
I take the point of Cavers losing their lives, however, my thoughts were simply this is a very recent and poignant event, involved elements of Cave Rescue and more importantly this will be a National Event held in Wales
To show respect would be a nice thing and for the wider community would be seen as respectful.
Mike
To show respect would be a nice thing and for the wider community would be seen as respectful.
Mike
Cave_Troll
Active member
yes there have been a couple of deaths in the cave diving community this year as well.
