What happerns if a dig turns into a show cave?

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diggerdog adam

Guest
Lets imagine your little poxy hole in the ground turns out in to a masive cave. Now lets go the whole hog its good enough to make into a show cave, who does it belong too ? You ? Your club? The land owner? WHO?

And How would you go about it?

Look forward to your thoughts
 

SamT

Moderator
Suppose thats what happened at Giants - cavers broke through all the sumps and squeezes to find a massive cave - the land owner then decided to try and turn it into a show cave by blasting the entrance series away.

My guess is definately the landowner.

Ive always wondered what happens if two cave entrances are on different land owners land. Who has say/liability (oops, I said it)/mineral rights then.
 
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darkplaces

Guest
Landowers dont automaticly have rights to under the ground. However they do have final access control over the entrances on the land they own. You have to find out who owns the mineral rights.

Its a good question and something that needs thinking about and resolving before the cave ends up like crap chedder. I'm sorry I hate the public show caves at chedder, rubbish, sanatised, clean, fat tourist american friendly.
 

SamT

Moderator
Havent been to the ones in cheddar but I used to work in Treak Cliff Cavern in castleton.
I really quite like the castleton show caves. Each one is quite different in its feel andadn they are not too commercialised - of course there is tat for sale - but its not too overblown.

You should see the caves in Postoinja in Slovenia if you want over commercialised caves.
 

Mrs Trellis

Well-known member
Remember that Speedwell & Peak used to belong to different owners even when they were joined underground.
 
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Dave H

Guest
I bet none of you own the mineral rights under your houses!
 

underground

Active member
Mrs Trellis said:
Remember that Speedwell & Peak used to belong to different owners even when they were joined underground.

I can't quite picture the post sunday lunch mob doing a through trip somehow! I'd love to see it though....:wink:
 

graham

New member
It never ceases to amaze me that so many people don't understand the answer to this one:

The cave belongs to the owner of the land above it. I can only think of one exception to this.

The issue of mineral rights is a complete red herring. Someone else may well own the mineral rights but that gives them no rights of access and will, indeed, give them no right to actually extract anything without specific planning permission. For the mineral rights to be of any use to anyone they would need both ownership of the land and planning permision to develop their mine or quarry.
 

SamT

Moderator
What happens when there are two entrances on two different pieces of land owned by different people.
 
M

Mole

Guest
graham said:
The issue of mineral rights is a complete red herring. Someone else may well own the mineral rights but that gives them no rights of access and will, indeed, give them no right to actually extract anything without specific planning permission. For the mineral rights to be of any use to anyone they would need both ownership of the land and planning permision to develop their mine or quarry.

I think in law,that is incorrect about access.
A mine I worked at was refused access to a level on adjoining land where they had the mineral rights,but not ownership of the land,and the landowner had refused access to the mining company.
The landowner was taken to court and told he must allow access to the owner of/leasee of the mineral rights below his property.

I myself leased the mineral rights at a mine site from the owner of the rights.
The person who owned and farmed the land above the site had no say in the matter,as the rights were owned by someone else.

Planning permission is something different altogether.
Anyone can apply for planning permission on someone elses property,and the property owner can do nothing about it.
 

graham

New member
The relevant word in Mole's post is "worked". If the mine has the mineral rights and an ongoing planning consent to work them, then, yes, the courts will confirm that access.

But you can buy the rights to each and every mineral beneath a piece of land and that of itself will not give any rights of access.

Yes, you can apply for planning permission covering any piece of land you like, doesn't mean you'll get it. And if you do, you'll still have to acquire the land before you can start work.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
There was some interesting info published of relevance to this thread in the ULSA Journal many years ago when they were doing secret trips into White Scar Cave and when the cave was up for sale the last time. Worth looking at.
 
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