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Expedition Borneo BBC

Amy

New member
So we are watching exped Borneo and they have started onto caves in Mulu. Uhm what the heck? Caving without helmets, saying they discovered caves that have tattered old flagging on the trail? And why are they double roping a 400+ foot drop and jacking rope the entire way, safetied to each other's rope so they are tangling horribly and clearly causing issues ? And playing the stalactites like xylophones with a machete? And the one gal filming the bats at deer cave was going to leave and thought she missed the bats WHEN IT WAS DAYTIME do they not know bats fly at dusk when its almost all the way dark? And these are the experts?!

WHAT THE HELL why are you having horrible caving practices?

 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Amy said:
safetied to each other's rope so they are tangling horribly and clearly causing issues ?

The clip seems to show DRT and I'm guessing that was used because it is an IRATA technique, more acceptable from an insurance point of view, and needful when there's a moderately valuable replaceable C list celebrity's life at stake.

Clip here, to save you looking:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00mk8rx

 

Leclused

Active member
Amy said:
And the one gal filming the bats at deer cave was going to leave and thought she missed the bats WHEN IT WAS DAYTIME do they not know bats fly at dusk when its almost all the way dark? And these are the experts?!

Not completely true. There are bats that come out during the daytime. In Italy there is a kind  that changed their hunting method from night to a few hours before sunset :)

 

Mark Wright

Active member
Amy,

Having seen the bats coming out of Deer Cave on a number of occasions, they actually come out at around 4.30pm when it definately isn't dark.

They are using a double rope system for the shaft because they are at work and if a single rope were to fail not only would the person on them probably die but Tim Fogg, who was responsible for safety, would have his arse reemed by the UK's Health & Safety Executive.

Mark
 

cavermark

New member
Not the best BBC output I seem to remember - too much focus on "awesome" presenters and light on information.
 

Amy

New member
Fair enough on the bats although I still say packing up when the sun is streaming into the entrance is dumb thinking.

Double rope where they are both on at the same time backed up to each other's ropes and it becoming a tangled mess I still think is dumb. I understand safety guidelines but when safety guidelines make more issues then are they really still safe? Here our regulations recognize SRT as the way to do caves exactly because of tangling issues and other problems of double rope in caves. I should know our unit wrote the nfpa 1006 standard :p

And nothing can excuse not using helmets in a cave. Even if you aren't going to bump your head something could fall.

And nothing can excuse poor conservation ethics so blatently bad as deshething your machete and banging on formations to show people how they sound like music when you bang them. Or in the cave with hand paintings on the ceiling, lighting fires underneath them to stay in The shelter of the entrance I have nothing against cave camping I am against lighting fires which make smoke and soot underneath centuries old paintings of historical significance.

And I wasn't too thrilled about all the "we are th first ones ever here!" When they are being shown by the locals, there is old tattered worn flagging to the entrances (in no way freshly placed flagging doesn't go that bad in five weeks), and once in you see a path as we call here elephant tracks you can tell many people have been there. Cut to a scene they mistakenly keep in and the cave they are first ever to find and explore has a name...same one with tattered flagging and elephant tracks. Sureeeee.

Honestly though the thing that pissed me most was total lack of respect for the cave environment.
I've always enjoyed the BBC EARTH programming when we can get it here but this one was just terrible. Usually BBC has good conservation ethics and shows proper technique and respect for environment. I felt all of that was totally lacking probably because they didn't have one person along with cave experience it seemed. 

I mean, even the scene toward the end of the last episode when the narator is talking about how their work will conserve this place they show a shot of them going down the river and almost timed at conserve the one biologist reaches up from the boat they are traveling in to an overhang branch and pulls it in on of those just for helluvit moves. Great timing. Pulling on trees for fun is totally conservation. People do it. But don't show it when you're talking about leaving nature alone and conserving it! It's contradictory.
 

Amy

New member
When a bbc earth programming turns into a game of how much contradiction and poor conservation ethics and lack of safety (oh I forgot to metion one of the "cavers" went out of daylight zone with no light on her helmet!)  you can fidn... Maybe they should have proofed it better.
 

badger

Active member
I am sure some people on hear could come up with some figures and sizes but a rock falling 50 metres plus and hits you on the head wearing a helmet wouldn't make any difference to you
 

Kenilworth

New member
Amy said:
And nothing can excuse not using helmets in a cave.

Sure it can. Dunno about this case, perhaps especially since it's on film, but let's not be elementary.

Amy continues... said:
I mean, even the scene toward the end of the last episode when the narator is talking about how their work will conserve this place they show a shot of them going down the river and almost timed at conserve the one biologist reaches up from the boat they are traveling in to an overhang branch and pulls it in on of those just for helluvit moves. Great timing. Pulling on trees for fun is totally conservation. People do it. But don't show it when you're talking about leaving nature alone and conserving it! It's contradictory.

Oh dear. Cavers are among the most confused people alive when it comes to conservation. Caving organizations emphasize the importance of conservation without ever teaching the concept, teach rules without principles, and put people in an illusory position of justification when making comments like the above.



 

graham

New member
Kenilworth said:
Amy said:
And nothing can excuse not using helmets in a cave.

Sure it can. Dunno about this case, perhaps especially since it's on film, but let's not be elementary.

Completely agree. I have been to a number of French  Palaeolithic decorated caves where helmets were verboten as their art was deemed far more valuable than your head.
 

Amy

New member
badger said:
I am sure some people on hear could come up with some figures and sizes but a rock falling 50 metres plus and hits you on the head wearing a helmet wouldn't make any difference to you
A green ponderosa pine (about 1-1.5lbs) falling from El Cap (1/2 mile) hit me square on my helmet, shattered around me, and left me with no more than a headache (not even a concussion). It's not always the rocks that you have to worry about.

graham said:
Kenilworth said:
Amy said:
And nothing can excuse not using helmets in a cave.

Sure it can. Dunno about this case, perhaps especially since it's on film, but let's not be elementary.

Completely agree. I have been to a number of French  Palaeolithic decorated caves where helmets were verboten as their art was deemed far more valuable than your head.
Oh I'm sorry I didn't know we were being pedantic. Go ahead, let's make it a rule that you don't always have to wear your helmet.  ::) Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but that makes it just that, an exception, to, the rule. And if you take off your helmet to protect cave art, then why is it ok to have a wood fire right underneath them? Because they did that...

My biggest issue (because I don't care about their heads for being dumbasses - seriously, the guy was exploring a cave, person-sized with rocks jutting everywhere, no formations, with only a headlamp no helmet) was later his pulling out his machette and banging on the stalactites with commenting basically - "these are so cool, they play music! Let me show you" *desheeths machette TAP TAP TAP* Nothing excuses that kind of behavior. Put it all together, these people had no business being in caves and showing off their "caving skills" There is a really famous formation here called the Elephant Ears that some idiot thought that taping music noise was cool, and broke one the ears. It doesn't matter how beefy the formation looks (these are THICK curtains), treating the cave like that is WRONG.
Before:
NewFern1.jpg

After:
8546419575_e9fa07d4f2_z.jpg


 

Bottlebank

New member
A green ponderosa pine (about 1-1.5lbs) falling from El Cap (1/2 mile) hit me square on my helmet, shattered around me, and left me with no more than a headache (not even a concussion).

Hmmm. Are you sure?
 

Mark Wright

Active member
Bottlebank said:
A green ponderosa pine (about 1-1.5lbs) falling from El Cap (1/2 mile) hit me square on my helmet, shattered around me, and left me with no more than a headache (not even a concussion).

Hmmm. Are you sure?

I would have to question that as well. By my reckoning that green ponderosa would have weighed the equivalent of over 4 tons when it hit you on the head????

Mark
 

bograt

Active member
Mark Wright said:
Bottlebank said:
A green ponderosa pine (about 1-1.5lbs) falling from El Cap (1/2 mile) hit me square on my helmet, shattered around me, and left me with no more than a headache (not even a concussion).

Hmmm. Are you sure?

I would have to question that as well. By my reckoning that green ponderosa would have weighed the equivalent of over 4 tons when it hit you on the head????

Mark

:clap:--- :LOL: :LOL:, Amy, love you to bits, but don't you think you're going a bit OTT about this?
 

Kenilworth

New member
Speaking of JV, I'm quite sure that he found notable excuses to do without helmets (and other vital PPE) in several caves.  ;)

 
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