Expedition Borneo BBC

[DannyW]

I wish I could watch it (region restricted being an Australian) just got to watch their short promo bit. In what I seen in that short clip, the old degraded formation that reserved a tap wasn't the best move but it wasn't that bad either.... but putting it on tv to encourage others to do the same for the "cool sound it makes" is the worst part. As for not wearing a helmet, I wear mine most of the time (as does everyone else in the club) but there are some situations that I take mine off, such as taking photos in a chamber not moving around I may take it off for a short period to get the light where I want it for auto focus before switching to manual and getting a few shots. Chances of me getting injured there are pretty slim and I would imagine Amy's shot is much the same. Other then that I only take it off when it doesn't fit ! but not wearing one in the entrance shaft is asking for troubles but in saying that each takes their own life in their own hands.

 

[badger]

A green ponderosa pine (about 1-1.5lbs) falling from El Cap (1/2 mile) hit me square on my helmet, shattered around me, and left me with no more than a headache (not even a concussion).

Hmmm. Are you sure?

I would have to question that as well. By my reckoning that green ponderosa would have weighed the equivalent of over 4 tons when it hit you on the head????

Mark

my point exactly, just did not have figures

 

[badger]

as for double lining Tim is an expert used all over the world, I am pretty sure he knows what he is doing, if he was not good at his job and expertise the bbc would not use him.

 

[graham]

Oh I'm sorry I didn't know we were being pedantic. Go ahead, let's make it a rule that you don't always have to wear your helmet.  : Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but that makes it just that, an exception, to, the rule.

What is pedantic about challenging your use of 'nothing' as in

And nothing can excuse not using helmets in a cave.

When it is patently untrue?

Kenilworth said

Oh dear. Cavers are among the most confused people alive when it comes to conservation. Caving organizations emphasize the importance of conservation without ever teaching the concept, teach rules without principles, and put people in an illusory position of justification when making comments like the above.

There can be little point in teaching people this rule about helmet use if others can simply and easily produce counter examples. What you need to teach people is why they should wear helmets in caves (clue: it is not to prevent objects falling 1/2 mile giving them concussion) they can then come to informed decisions as to when it may not be necessary or appropriate.

You go on to say:

And if you take off your helmet to protect cave art, then why is it ok to have a wood fire right underneath them? Because they did that...

Who are the "they"in that sentence? If you mean the original artists, then you do need to understand what their motives were in producing the work in the first place. This may be difficult for someone who has - I sincerely hope - been taught not to put graffiti on cave walls under any circumstances. (see what I did there?) By original intention much of their work may have been ephemeral in nature; that does not mean that we should not treat it with the utmost respect now. Our societal norms are very different from theirs in all sorts of ways.

 

[Kenilworth]

To be fair, the last quote from me that Graham includes in his last post was not about the helmet issue, but about "pulling on trees".  To be sure, though, the decision to wear a helmet or not can often be a conservation issue.

There can be little point in teaching people this rule about helmet use if others can simply and easily produce counter examples. What you need to teach people is why they should wear helmets in caves (clue: it is not to prevent objects falling 1/2 mile giving them concussion) they can then come to informed decisions as to when it may not be necessary or appropriate.

Exactly. And this would be the ideal and most productive way to do all of our training and make all of our decisions, if only we had the patience. Indeed, I have always believed that pedantry is related to a preoccupation with rules.