Author Topic: Three Counties Grand Traverse  (Read 6292 times)

Online Badlad

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2021, 10:32:18 am »
Dalebarn to Aygill might be possible one day. 

The weekend got me thinking about the three pots and three peaks.  At first it was done fully supported with campervans along the route, different gear, and rest stops.  After various refinements of the techniques by other teams it was done totally unsupported, carrying everything by MarkS and co.  I think it took a bit longer than the Grand Traverse too.  So will the Grand Traverse be done unsupported one day?  I'm doubting it  :)

Offline Benfool

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2021, 01:51:18 pm »
What would you class as unsupported?

It would be pretty much impossible to complete it carrying all the gear needed all the way through the traverse as I guess its close to 100kg of stuff. However if somebody was allowed to deposit kit throughout the system to pick up on route, then it'll probably get done unsupported at some point.

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2021, 03:02:14 pm »
It will be really easy once we have James Bond Thunderball rebreathers. You can carry 3 extras in the arm pocket of a warmbac.
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Online Alex

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2021, 06:15:54 pm »
Quote
The weekend got me thinking about the three pots and three peaks.  At first it was done fully supported with campervans along the route, different gear, and rest stops.  After various refinements of the techniques by other teams it was done totally unsupported, carrying everything by MarkS and co.  I think it took a bit longer than the Grand Traverse too.  So will the Grand Traverse be done unsupported one day?  I'm doubting it

Possibly? Would require lots of earlier trips for gear stashing such as leaving diving gear at the bottom of Ireby Fell, but it would mean dragging diving gear through the Notts 2 connection to Lost Johns (Assuming they can't instead dive the sumps at the end of Notts 2?) They could then leave the diving gear in waterfall chamber and change into a second set of dry caving gear pre-stashed there. With stashed food along the route, so yeh possible but requires lots of stashing!
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline Benfool

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2021, 06:33:23 pm »
The equipment needed to dive the ireby to notts 2 sumps is completely different to the equipment needed to dive from lost John's to shuttleworth, then onto pip. So you'd need to stash 2 sets of diving kit.

The way on downstream of notts2, in notts4, was lost and the connection though to gavel, and thus lost John's, has not been found. Having said that, if it was connected, you would then need to pass the 3rd deepest sump in the UK (at 65m), which somewhat adds to the seriousness of the trip!

Offline alanw

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2021, 10:59:22 pm »
Another media report from the Craven Herald: "Conquering the ‘Underground K2’ in the Dales", by Russell Myers, of the Craven Pothole Club.

https://www.cravenherald.co.uk/news/19625735.conquering-underground-k2-dales/

With a link to https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-PE0D21ERDLpM9bLHhXhAcJyxSGutJTP

Offline David Rose

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2021, 08:59:28 am »
Nice write-up but it contains an inaccuracy. The first entrance explored to the 3Cs wasn't Lancaster Hole in 1946, but Lost John's, which was first explored by the YRC in 1928. In what was surely one of the most impressive pieces of inter-war caving, they got down all the way to the Master Cave, using hemp ropes, and hemp rope and wooden rung ladders.

Offline Beardy

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2021, 09:28:24 am »
Hi Dave

In an attempt to stop further inaccuracies
 
I'm not sure what the actual first entrance to the 3 Counties System to be explored was,
but there were lots of entrances explored before Lost Johns' Cave

For example

Death's Head Hole Explored 1889 YRC
Short Drop Cave Explored 1898 YRC
Bull Pot of the Witches Explored 1899 YRC

Regards
Beardy

Offline David Rose

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2021, 09:45:08 am »
Thanks Beardy!

They were hard, those guys.

Offline Speleotron

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2021, 11:29:28 am »
Why did they dive from Ireby 1 to Ireby 2 and not take the skylight passage? Is it an easy dive that's less faffy than dragging cylinders through the crawl?
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Offline PeteHall

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #60 on: October 06, 2021, 11:52:37 am »
Why did they dive from Ireby 1 to Ireby 2 and not take the skylight passage? Is it an easy dive that's less faffy than dragging cylinders through the crawl?

If you need diving kit with you anyway, dragging cylinders through a dry cave is really hard work, floating through in zero gravity is very much easier  :)

Offline alanw

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #61 on: October 06, 2021, 12:13:29 pm »
Why did they dive from Ireby 1 to Ireby 2 and not take the skylight passage? Is it an easy dive that's less faffy than dragging cylinders through the crawl?

Back in the day, while Skylight was being excavated (from both ends), the Earby constructed a sump pump. An hour's strenuous work (been there, done that) pulled water back and up from the sump to behind a dam. It then flowed down a pipe back through the sump and away down a slope. It was then a short crawl through to Ireby 2. See also a series of "Grand Days Out" and one "Grim Day Out": Sat 04 Oct 2008.

http://earbypotholeclub.co.uk/?page_id=287
http://mudminers.org/category/three-counties-area/threecountiesarea/ireby-fell-cavern/duke-street/

Offline chunky

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #62 on: October 06, 2021, 01:44:44 pm »
Why did they dive from Ireby 1 to Ireby 2 and not take the skylight passage? Is it an easy dive that's less faffy than dragging cylinders through the crawl?
Yes the bypass sump is 15 meters, takes only a couple of minutes to pass, so much easier than the skylight passage.


Alanw thanks for the link, a great read

Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

Offline Speleotron

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #63 on: October 06, 2021, 02:01:15 pm »
Thanks for the links. I always imagined diving was so serious that even an easy dive was 'worse' than a much longer bit of dry caving. But I suppose if you're going to do the Grand Traverse then an extra 15 meters underwater to avoid skylight passage is no big deal.
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Offline langcliffe

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2021, 06:15:45 pm »
Hi Dave

In an attempt to stop further inaccuracies
 
I'm not sure what the actual first entrance to the 3 Counties System to be explored was,
but there were lots of entrances explored before Lost Johns' Cave

For example

Death's Head Hole Explored 1889 YRC
Short Drop Cave Explored 1898 YRC
Bull Pot of the Witches Explored 1899 YRC

Regards
Beardy

And don't forget the fantastic exploration of Gavel upstream into Short Drop by  Messrs. W. Eckroyd, Geoffrey and Cuthbert Hastings in 1885, when they scaled the 5 metre waterfall.

https://www.yrc.org.uk/journal-and-image-archive/journal-selector/yrc-journal-1930-vol-6-no-19/journal-v6n19p60/

Offline Russell Myers

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2021, 06:01:58 pm »
Hi Dave

In an attempt to stop further inaccuracies
 
I'm not sure what the actual first entrance to the 3 Counties System to be explored was,
but there were lots of entrances explored before Lost Johns' Cave

For example

Death's Head Hole Explored 1889 YRC
Short Drop Cave Explored 1898 YRC
Bull Pot of the Witches Explored 1899 YRC

Regards
Beardy

And don't forget the fantastic exploration of Gavel upstream into Short Drop by  Messrs. W. Eckroyd, Geoffrey and Cuthbert Hastings in 1885, when they scaled the 5 metre waterfall.

https://www.yrc.org.uk/journal-and-image-archive/journal-selector/yrc-journal-1930-vol-6-no-19/journal-v6n19p60/

My error quoting Lancaster Hole as the "original" entrance. The Craven Herald article was a trimmed down version of one I have written for the CPC Record where I used "key" entrance to the 3Cs and not "original" - an error in the edit. Following on from Dave R, Langcliffe's and Be Ardy's references to earlier entrances and by way of atonement for my error, here is an early photo from the CPC archive showing the amount of tackle needed for Lost Johns. We think it may only be part of all that was required and more was waiting to be ferried onto the Fell!
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Online Badlad

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2021, 08:46:11 pm »
The Grand Traverse was a great showcase to demonstrate the real life adventures possible in British caves.  The publicity in the Mail, Wessie, Herald and social media brought it to the attention of many outside caving.  Several of the people I work with had seen it for example.

What seemed to be missing from any of the publicity is a link to how anyone who was interested could take up the sport.  The Newtocaving website has all the info, answers and contacts and was designed for just this purpose.  It is now owned by the BCA and the BCA chairman is credited with at least one of the newspaper reports.  Why no mention of the site?  In my experience of 'doing media' they are usually very happy to publish these sort of links. 

Those involved in doing media - especially from our National Body - should have promoting our sport at the top of their list whenever the opportunity arises - please.

Offline BradW

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2021, 09:29:21 pm »
So, sounds like both the Acting Chair AND the P&I officer (media contact) have let us down, in your opinion. It's going to be a difficult choice.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 10:12:42 pm by BradW »

Online Ian Ball

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2021, 10:08:03 pm »
Who is the BCA media contact?

edit: Rostam Namaghi

https://british-caving.org.uk/about-bca/press-media/

edit 2 :Great website

https://newtocaving.com/

Offline David Rose

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2021, 10:19:11 pm »
Thanks for posting that photo, Russell, and thank you Langcliffe for that amazing article.

Does anyone else have info or references to caving in Britain in this period - ie, before Martel's descent of Gaping Gill in 1895?  I've got a lot on the details of the explorations by Birkbeck and others up to 1870, but it seems very little has been published lately about the years between Birkbeck  and the formation of the YRC in 1892.   

Offline mikem

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Offline Russell Myers

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #71 on: October 09, 2021, 11:39:31 pm »

What seemed to be missing from any of the publicity is a link to how anyone who was interested could take up the sport.  The Newtocaving website has all the info, answers and contacts and was designed for just this purpose.  It is now owned by the BCA and the BCA chairman is credited with at least one of the newspaper reports.  Why no mention of the site?

Newtocaving was listed in my "press release" along with other useful links. Unfortunately, they have been edited out of the two papers who picked up on the story by the respective reporters. BCA was not directly involved in the project once it got underway led by the CDG.
JFK: Change is the law of life and those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.

Offline BradW

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #72 on: October 10, 2021, 07:22:46 am »

What seemed to be missing from any of the publicity is a link to how anyone who was interested could take up the sport.  The Newtocaving website has all the info, answers and contacts and was designed for just this purpose.  It is now owned by the BCA and the BCA chairman is credited with at least one of the newspaper reports.  Why no mention of the site?

Newtocaving was listed in my "press release" along with other useful links. Unfortunately, they have been edited out of the two papers who picked up on the story by the respective reporters. BCA was not directly involved in the project once it got underway led by the CDG.
Faith restored  :)

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #73 on: October 10, 2021, 08:31:02 am »
Faith never wavered, in fact.

Online Badlad

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Re: Three Counties Grand Traverse
« Reply #74 on: October 10, 2021, 08:47:46 am »

What seemed to be missing from any of the publicity is a link to how anyone who was interested could take up the sport.  The Newtocaving website has all the info, answers and contacts and was designed for just this purpose.  It is now owned by the BCA and the BCA chairman is credited with at least one of the newspaper reports.  Why no mention of the site?

Newtocaving was listed in my "press release" along with other useful links. Unfortunately, they have been edited out of the two papers who picked up on the story by the respective reporters. BCA was not directly involved in the project once it got underway led by the CDG.

The lesson here then is to prioritise and shorten your list.  The Newtocaving site already has an extensive list of contacts within it.  For interested members of the public it is by far and away the best link you have. 

 

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