Ah, but before that it was sheep (or wool). Thing's change.

Sometimes books are only written to make money. Facts or research are irrelevant. As long as the books sell, fine.

Given the discussion in recent days, this is a good watch.

At a meeting last night with the Nottingham branch of the Association of Ukrainians of GB, there were 2 Nottingham MPs and three local Authority Officers. One key message we took from the meeting - we have to stop collecting and sending clothes and food and blankets. They are overwhelmed with...

Some limestones have a natural sulphur content which you can smell if the rock is subject to sudden movement or impact. Perhaps some loose boulders have settled or some collapse might have happened.

The feeling is mutual, fella. I have posted as much of my thoughts as I think necessary without insulting anyone or getting over personal. So there is no need to engage further as it achieves little. It would be "silly" to continue.

We are already paying more for greatly increased BCA funding of access campaigns. I wonder who is in worse financial straits? DYO cave management? BCA? the DYO access committee? Whatever, paying a bit to help in this specific case is well justified.

Stop being silly. The fee is not going into the owner's pockets. The power and comms feed is to the refuge camp alone. The refuge camp provision is impressive. Go and see for yourself. Mind you, you will have to pay for the trip but I think you will be impressed. Increased levels and frequency...

There is nothing righteous about simply showing gratitude to someone else investing heavily in making access to a cave safer. Anyone complaining about this fee isn't understanding this point. Righteousness is not the opposite of ingratitude.

What an ungrateful and undeserving bunch of people cavers are showing themselves to be in this discussion. Is it just conveniently being ignored or just that nobody noticed the sum of ?7000 mentioned in the letter? The showcave management have provided this money over the years to cavers who...

I took what OR said in explanation in good faith, and now David has pointed it out, I can see that perhaps the misunderstanding is simply down to poor grammar. I suspect OR means that it's the many cavers in the south that consider it all a waste of time and effort. It would be a shame if a...

Well, there is the CRoW update from David on Page 4, which at least gives the current situation in a factual manner.

100 percent with you David.

Yes - I think he would. Despite Mr France's rather negative comments towards Descent, I would rather we did not introduce cancel culture into British caving and it's publishing outlets. We don't have a lot - let's treasure what we have, and submit items for publication, whatever angle they come...

One question that crossed my mind was why did mrodoc use Descent to publish his opinion rather than this forum? After all, he is a regular and well-respected member here.