1st time repair

[Les W]

2402 Bostik is the stuff that is used to stick the tubes together on RIBs (Rigid Inflatable Boats-The ones divers use...).
I used to get mine from a RIB factory near here, but sadly that "contact" has moved on as it was a very cheap source of supply (it's amazing what you can get for a couple of beers in the right place...)

It is a two part contact adhesive that you "hammer" together and it's stuck immediately. Ideal for cordura, canvas and other hard wearing fabrics.
I once stuck some "warmtex" knee patches on my wetsuit with it, the neoprene finally failed after many years of hard use...

Best place to buy it is from a chandlers shop (if you know one near you that is).

 

[Pitlamp]

Aha - there's one on the A6 at Hazel Grove, on the way from Stockport to Castleton. Might have to stop off for a rummage en route to Peak Cavern.

 

[Les W]

it's not cheap mind... ?14 for 250ml
http://www.ewetsuits.com/acatalog/bostik-2402.html

Well what do you know, it's recommended for wetsuit and drysuit repairs as well...
Sounds ideal for you John  8)

 

[CatM]

Les, looks very similar to what I recently resorted to for fixing my meander PVC:

http://www.marinesuperstore.com/posit/shop/index.php?selectedpartno=11013

Only had a couple of outings since doing the patching but it seems to hold pretty strong (the fumes are pretty nasty though, and the primer is carcinogenic, lovely). A darn sight better than everything else I've tried since the patching kits changed to slightly new material.

"Will bond a variety of surfaces including wood, canvas, leather, PVC, nylon fabric, polyurathene fabric and foam"

 

[jarvist]

I've never understood why Aquasure is SO expensive. It's just a standard polyurethane prepolymer + cross linker (i.e. bog standard roof sealent) mixed with Toluene to make it much nicer (but more toxic) to handle.

 

[Les W]

Les, looks very similar to what I recently resorted to for fixing my meander PVC:

http://www.marinesuperstore.com/posit/shop/index.php?selectedpartno=11013

Only had a couple of outings since doing the patching but it seems to hold pretty strong (the fumes are pretty nasty though, and the primer is carcinogenic, lovely). A darn sight better than everything else I've tried since the patching kits changed to slightly new material.

"Will bond a variety of surfaces including wood, canvas, leather, PVC, nylon fabric, polyurathene fabric and foam"

It has to be nasty to stick properly. The world is full of solvent free products that are usless, solvent free Gripfill takes 24 hours to dry, what's the point...
You instinctively know it will be rubbish without some decent solvents.
Remember those marker pens that you could get high on? They wrote permanently, on any surface. Solvent free ones don't.  :chair:

Realistically, observe the correct handling procedures, wear proper PPE and use in a well ventilated space (or outdoors) and all will be well.
Nice to know it will also stick my Meander back together (if I ever go any where nasty enough to rip it...) 

 

[jarvist]

It has to be nasty to stick properly.

Mmm, well, yes and no.
First off, the glue isn't going to be that carcinogenic - it's probably just Toluene or the less damaging Xylene. Benzene, which is a *nasty* carcinogen, has been completely phased out of all consumer products, in Britain / EU at least.
They'll be far more damaging to your nervous system (i.e. don't sniff glue!) before they're increasing your cancer risk notably.
The key thing if you're doing this at home is to put it somewhere out of the way (i.e. not under the bed) while it dries.  A garage would be perfect. In my little London flat, I put anything glued next to the front door, the draught sucks away the volatiles.

To permanent markers: Xylene based ones are still available, notably the Pentel N60 / N50 (and I think I couple of the massive Sharpies). If it's got a metal body, it's probably xylene. The solvent smells of... sort of apple-y petrol, or old school paints; whereas the modern alcohol based oness smell well... like IPA, which is kinda like vodka with a sharp overlayer. Waft, don't sniff.
They are excellent at permanently marking most plastics as the pigment is actually washed into the plastic by the Xylene. Potentially you could also be damaging the bulk and certainly melt / dissolve the surface of the plastic. They mark Meanders forever, and you end up with a slowly spreading (usually Green) line that will actually spread all the way through the PVC.
However, they're not necessarily any better at marking other materials / surviving washing. Due to the highly volatile solvents, they'll become permanent more quickly than modern alcohol based markers, but won't necessarily be more permanent once they get there!

Certainly the modern Staedtler permanent 'special' (an alcohol based one) is much better at marking glass, and doesn't 'seep' through plastic (so it's good for writing names on laundry labels, heat shrink tubing for rope etc.)

A key thing to remember with permanent markers is that only the Black (and not even then, sometimes) is fully light fast.

 

[CatM]

Realistically, observe the correct handling procedures, wear proper PPE and use in a well ventilated space (or outdoors) and all will be well.

It's ok, I'm an organic chemist so I'm probably gonna die prematurely anyway...

 

[Roger W]

A key thing to remember with permanent markers is that only the Black (and not even then, sometimes) is fully light fast.

Just to go really utterly completely off-topic - another key thing to remember about permanent markers is not to use them accidentally on a whiteboard when giving a presentation...

(Got the T-shirt there....  :-[ )

And, yes - any sort of solvent-based adhesives should be used in a well-ventilated place.  The solvent vapour will almost certainly be intoxicant if not toxic if not carcinogenic, and possibly even (in)flammable  <<boom!>>

 

[Muddy Funkster]

Now I'm worried 
I have two young boys and live in a small house with no garage. With a long and noxious drying time there's a catch then.

 

[Les W]

Now I'm worried 
I have two young boys and live in a small house with no garage. With a long and noxious drying time there's a catch then.

It's not that bad, do it by an open window.
2402 Bostic drys within a few minutes (15 minutes or so) and Aquasure doesn't have too much volatile vapour.
Also the quantaties you are using are quite small and so will the coresponding quantities of the volatiles.
Do you have a garden? or wait until the kids are out somewhere. It really isn't that bad.

 

[Muddy Funkster]

I will give it a go but will need a place to dry it safely. Sunny day in the garden sometime before my next trip. Where's the best place to get the cordura material from? I have another totally trashed oversuit that could be cut up but it's a lightweight one and may wear through quickly.

 

[jarvist]

Aquasure doesn't have too much volatile vapour.

Not convinced by that Les, it's 30% Toluene or there abouts. Single component aromatic solvent based glues are probably the single most volatile things you can buy off the shelf.

 

[Les W]

I will give it a go but will need a place to dry it safely. Sunny day in the garden sometime before my next trip. Where's the best place to get the cordura material from? I have another totally trashed oversuit that could be cut up but it's a lightweight one and may wear through quickly.

Some of the caving shops keep offcuts or if you're down this way, warmbac.
You may be able to buy some cordura from a material supplier as well
If you're "Ooop norf" then this might do the job:
http://www.pennineoutdoor.co.uk/catalogue.asp?sID=4#P18

Jarvist, I didn't mean there wasn't any volatiles, just that the quantity wouldn't be an issue when doing a suit repair.

 

[Muddy Funkster]

Down south - in Reading.
Thanks again for all the help people

 

[Les W]

Cave Climb might have some offcuts or else try Warmbac directly... 

 

[Pitlamp]

it's not cheap mind... ?14 for 250ml
http://www.ewetsuits.com/acatalog/bostik-2402.html

Well what do you know, it's recommended for wetsuit and drysuit repairs as well...
Sounds ideal for you John  8)

Yep - I come from Lancashire, so my pockets aren't that deep and my arms are considerably longer than a Yorkie.    I'll happily fork out for summat which works.

 

[Amy]

I will give it a go but will need a place to dry it safely. Sunny day in the garden sometime before my next trip. Where's the best place to get the cordura material from? I have another totally trashed oversuit that could be cut up but it's a lightweight one and may wear through quickly.

Some of the caving shops keep offcuts or if you're down this way, warmbac.
You may be able to buy some cordura from a material supplier as well
If you're "Ooop norf" then this might do the job:
http://www.pennineoutdoor.co.uk/catalogue.asp?sID=4#P18

Jarvist, I didn't mean there wasn't any volatiles, just that the quantity wouldn't be an issue when doing a suit repair.

Not sure what "p18" cordura is - we measure in denier. 200-300d is the ripstop nylon weight, 500 is more packcloth weight, 1000 is what is used for caving stuff, 1050 is ballistic nylon which is pretty indestructable although you'd not want to wear it as a suit can make nice cavepacks but it is a bitch to sew through. Lots of various coatings then.

I've had great luck with textile specialist, which has an ebay store, it's $7/yrd plus shipping, a couple yards fit into small flat rate box which is currently $13 for oversea shipping. http://stores.ebay.com/Textile-Specialist-Direct/CORDURA-and-BALLISTIC-FABRICS-/_i.html?_fsub=2253694018&_sid=77148748&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322