Age of Forum Users

[cooleycr]

I grew up in the Fens around Cambridge, not known for caving or mining, in fact, the deepest hole I knew was the cement works pit near where I was born...
It wasn't until I moved up to Sheffield and joined a sports and social club (not named as I don't wish to infringe advertising rules!) that I first went caving (other than the usual tourist trip into Blue John)...
I was in my thirties then but have steadily increased my involvement such that I am now part of a (very successful) digging crew in the TSG and, at 54 years of age, having the time of my life..
Very soon I will giving up my job and will be able to spend even more time chasing leads (yes, Galena is a lead)...
TLAs, I will not miss these after 39 years in BT (and its predecessors) - the best ever was if you got stuck you were told to RTFM!

 

[ttxela2]

We don't suffer too badly with acronyms here although they do come up occasionally. We have the Toyota inspired Japanese words instead like Kaizen and Gemba. Also took me a while to work out what 5Sing something meant (turns out its having a bit of a tidy up).

Anyhow, I've also lived in Cambridgeshire all my life 

 

[mikem]

The U45s are catching up, now it's 80 versus 93

 

[Laurie]

Would be interesting to have another 15 year split and see how many are over 75.

 

[The Old Ruminator]

Looking again at the opening question -

"Perodically I wonder about the demographics of forum users.  The average age of my digging group is well over 60 at present. British caving would be in a parlous state if this was the status quo so let's see what age group primarily uses this forum. Potential advertisers might find this information useful eg Saga "

We are asked the age of forum users not active cavers.  This may well give rise to the later age demographic.  Of the whole grouping I wonder how many are active cavers and what does the term " active " actually mean. Caving once a month -- more or less ?

Maybe the forum is awash with old duffers whose caving kit remains moldering in the garage from a previous use many years ago.

 

[Laurie]

Maybe the forum is awash with old duffers whose caving kit remains moldering in the garage from a previous use many years ago.  

Sadly, you are oh so right. 

 

[tony from suffolk]

Maybe the forum is awash with old duffers whose caving kit remains moldering in the garage from a previous use many years ago.

How dare you! I resemble that remark!

 

[droid]

Rumbled 

 

[NewStuff]

Of the whole grouping I wonder how many are active cavers and what does the term " active " actually mean. Caving once a month -- more or less ?

That's an industrial size Can O'Worms you're opening there...

Personally - If work is busy, it can be 2-3 months before I get time to get a good day underground. If work is slack, I can go 3-4 times a week for months.

Other people I know have family commitments, which meant they simply can't get out as often as they would like.

If you want to give people more disincentive to bother organising things so they can go, you carry on in that vein. Some people are not retired, have demanding jobs, family commitments, or life just hands out some bad deals. They have to settle for doing what they can, when they can.

 

[The Old Ruminator]

Merely ruminating Newstuff. You do get ever so tetchy.

 

[NewStuff]

Merely ruminating Newstuff. You do get ever so tetchy.

Mendip gate fans do that to me ;-)

Seriously, I know a few people that have difficulty getting out. The last thing they need is some old codger slapping an arbitrary limit on what's "active" and telling them they're not. They'd probably just give it up as a loss, why would you bother at that point?

 

[The Old Ruminator]

Well I certainly cant get too irritated by the term " Old Codger " as it is far to close to the truth . 

 

[NewStuff]

I'm sure a lot of us would like to be more active, but life, health, work, age etc all get in the way.

 

[Laurie]

I think 'active' is a percentage of your free time not actual manhours.

 

[mikem]

Hmm, that seems to have brought out a number of crumblies - 20 more vs only 2 extra U45s!

 

[The Old Ruminator]

Sure I was lucky in my working life with " A no set hours " contract. It was objective based on sales performance. When I was young I was told " never work hard work smart ". I hid in the middle and usually worked three days a week. I then retired at 50. Yes my hobbies were always more important to me than my work. I guess that is why I have so many of them. I was probably selfish with my family time specially during my diving days. I did find, however, that there is no right time to be responsible and give up " hazardous " pursuits. Young family, mortgage years or approaching old age. Sadly few can follow this in today's "accountable " workplace . I hated all of that when it came in in the later years. Company appraisal interviews. They got nothing from me as I just clammed up. In a way NewStuff is correct it is all harder now to find the time for things but we must resist the " treadmill "approach to work. My company sacked the lot, 2,000 of them, 3 years after I walked out. I saw it coming but many with high mortgages did not. So no matter how hard they all worked it counted for little in the end. I never turned anything down hazard wise in my life. OK the parachute course was nearly the end but I still did it. Same with diving. We lost about ten of our deep gas set. Life is for living but also for appreciating the love and views of others. No I do not bridle at the term " Old Codger ". I guess I am one but I sure don't feel it. Keeping fit and active is a reasonable antidote to that state.
I asked the question about caving active more from a rhetorical stand point. I dont suppose you can really define it. Maybe "ex caver" has more relevance. The original question will lead to age bias in the later years as many ex cavers no doubt still like to keep in touch with the hobby. The unkind epithet " Armchair Caver " used to be applied there. No issue from me there .We all have to accept that  we can no longer do the things we used to do eventually.I continually asked myself when diving -when will I know to give it up ?  Losing a very close mate with two small kids knocked me back . He was doing a dive that I had planned. In the end the physical world put a sudden end to my diving with constant bends from deep dives. I could barely drive home sometimes and did write the car off once. In a way life is unkind. You have the youth but not the time and money. You have both of those but lose the youth.

 

[pwhole]

Nice post 

 

[lancscaver]

I am in the 45 bracket and just started my return to caving after a break of many years, as people say... Life just gets in the way, work, money, time etc aren't always on your side?
I started in 89 as a young lad 15-16 with some friends, luckily my mate had older twin brothers who had cars so off we went and discovered caving amongst other outdoor activities.
A few weeks training, rigging and rescue with Nigel Atkins and Kev West, living every weekend at Bernies meeting people like Dave Elliot over breakfast was a dream come true!
This started an intense time for possibly 10+ years out and about every weekend travelling from East Yorkshire to the Dales, Wales, Derbyshire etc caving, intense SRT as well as mountain biking, skiing, backpacking and walking then exploring mines across the North Pennines and Derbyshire.
Inevitably the knees started to go after an intense SRT weekend with the NAMHO mining conference running trips in the Forest of Dean I and got the early signs of osteo arthritis so the big pitches had to stop and reduce activities to preserve the knees for later life?
Still continued mountain biking etc and walking but moves with work around the country and new relationships saw a complete break apart from a stomp through Alum Pot occasionally for fun.
Now 45 and into landscape photography something seems to be missing?
Probably a mid life crisis!
The call of the underground beckons again, especially with the hugely over populated and busy mountains today which has drawn me back to the peace and quiet of the caves where I plan to combine photography too!
Plus discover all the many smaller caves I missed in my SRT days on ropes going vertical.
Planning a return to SRT but nothing silly.
I think we were brought up in the 70`s and 80`s as outdoor kids, climbing trees, building dens, making fires, in the school holidays you returned home bleeding, stinking of fire smoke in your torn camo jacket, covered in mud with bruises and head wounds having gone over your handlebars in the woods?
Your mother would say... I don't want to know!
Then repeat it again the next day!
You hit your teens with that outdoor excitement and interest in adventure mostly lacking today?
The caves appealed to us as just another great adventure!
Plus what else did we have? a rubix cube!
I bet you cant get many underground today? there's no WIFI? plus elf and safety paranoia with their bubble wrapped darling snowflakes, there is little if any sense of adventure unless its clicking like on instagram?
Kids idea of adventure today is taking a selfie of yourself with puppy ears and a pigs nose on snapchat then sit grumpy, depressed and dejected waiting for likes from every one of your friends on facebook?
Rant Over!
I can crack on with my mid life crisis now!

 

[Kenilworth]

I am still a young man and will remain an active "caver" as long as I can walk. I mean I will keep going into and learning about caves. I dislike the term caver because of its popular implications among cavers.

TOR and others are right that while the demands of a job may explain the lack of more enjoyable and worthwhile activity, they should not be allowed to do. For example I find myself working less all the time, making less money, paying fewer bills, buying less crap, and having more of a surplus of money and time. Thankfully I have never become addicted to "social media" or drugs or booze or television so there's a lot of time and money saved. And I've overcome unhealthy and expensive eating habits and the inclination to buy unneeded tools and recreational equipment.

Part of the reason that young and active cavers get burned out is that their activity is unfulfilling. The raw excitement of caving is very short-lived, and must be replaced by something more substantial if caving is to be a lifelong activity. For a while I was motivated by the thrill of virgin discovery, but that too is a superficial thing. I still seek virgin cave, but with a sort of awesome dread of the act of discovery and the difficult job of work and responsibility that often follows. But the joy now is in learning about and keeping care of things. For young cavers conservation is a token that attempts to justify reckless recreation. Eventually it must become a natural act toward things one has found to be valuable, even overreaching the act of caving if needed.

Older cavers often cherish their caving companions and their histories together as much as they do caving itself. Most young people do not know how to create real relationships that have the authenticity to sustain a decades-long sharing of work and play within their literal common ground. 

 

[The Old Ruminator]

Two great posts. I have just read the last Wallander book ( " The Troubled Man " ). It follows the character into his 60's and his angst about overworking and approaching old age. Maybe within that book there is a lesson for us all. I find keeping active the best antidote to all of those things. Caving yesterday , wet and cold, home to a hot bath . Postcard fair on Friday ( where I used to meet the late Dave Irwin - "Wig- "for a chat. ). An antique bottle fair on Sunday and usually " The Friday Walk". Out in the countryside with the camera. Saturdays are reserved for SWMBO ( " Ayesha" ) whilst Mondays are grandson day. I avoid all committee type activities as those sort of things give rise to stress. I have a diving book to write having written eight books on local social history. If you keep busy you might, indeed, avoid the traps of a mid life crisis. ( sadly I didnt but that was partly due to post traumatic issues from being lost at sea). Yes I too hope to keep caving having just bought all new kit. With good health age should not be a barrier to an active life. I ration TV ( "The Fool's Lantern" ) to just over an hour a day. Really most of it is utter tripe. Well I have a load of mucky kit to wash but here is a photo from yesterday before I go.

70m down and The Cheddar Master Cave might be around that corner. Then again it might not. Who Cares ? It gets me out.