An old dinosaur?

[rm128]

After reading a few recent Equipment threads, I'm really starting to feel like an old dinosaur. I (largely) taught myself SRT back in the mid 1980s, using snaplinks on my 2 cowstails (one short, one long) and 2 jammers. I still use the same system. I like its simplicity. I've been in my fair share of sticky situations, but always had enough in my toolkit (mentally & gear-wise) to get myself out. Likewise, I've been able to assist other (less-experienced) cavers out of sticky situations with the kit I have (and the kit they have).

I'm certainly not knocking anyone who uses a different system. In fact, I'm very impressed indeed by the level of thought that many seem to have given to their SRT setup and techniques. I just wonder if I'm a lone dinosaur, or are there others out there? Am I an accident waiting to happen? Conversely, is there something to be said for simplicity?

Just wondering....

 

[MarkS]

I use the same, as do most people I know. I suspect the relative proportions of people that use "standard" set-ups vs. non-standard are not represented by the numbers of posts endorsing them.

 

[mikem]

It's a perfectly acceptable set up as long as you're aware of its limitations (all systems have some) & careful of how you use it.

 

[cap n chris]

A "modern" SRT rig probably comprises a Pantin, and maybe a descender which isn't an old version Petzl Stop. Some variants might also have adjustable lanyards, even grillons, and no cord of shame connecting the hand jammer assemblage to the central maillon. And not a snaplink in sight. Perhaps including a Freino too. Have I missed anything?

 

[rm128]

A "modern" SRT rig probably comprises a Pantin, and maybe a descender which isn't an old version Petzl Stop. Some variants might also have adjustable lanyards, even grillons, and no cord of shame connecting the hand jammer assemblage to the central maillon. And not a snaplink in sight. Perhaps including a Freino too. Have I missed anything?

Cheers Cap’n. I even had to look up what a Grillon is. I’m more of a dinosaur than I thought! I’m not sure why a cord connecting the handjammer to the central maillon is a “cord of shame”. Is there something wrong with that setup?

I get why some (most?) people don’t like snaplinks for cowstails, but I prefer them. I don’t like the thought of doing, for example, the Chapterhouse traverse in Yordas with anything else. Of course, as mikem says, you have to be aware of the associated risks.

 

[mikem]

Cheers Cap’n. I even had to look up what a Grillon is. I’m more of a dinosaur than I thought! I’m not sure why a cord connecting the handjammer to the central maillon is a “cord of shame”. Is there something wrong with that setup?

French style is to use the long cowstail to attach the handjammer whilst ascending, but it does allow the possibility of dropping it...

 

[rm128]

French style is to use the long cowstail to attach the handjammer whilst ascending, but it does allow the possibility of dropping it...

I see. If I understand correctly, that sounds like it could be a bit awkward on a traverse between 2 pitches.

 

[cap n chris]

I see. If I understand correctly, that sounds like it could be a bit awkward on a traverse between 2 pitches.

Surprisingly it's not.

Anyone concerned about dropping their foot loop/hand jammer merely has to clip the foot loop to their harness gear loop before disconnecting the hand jammer from their safety connector.

 

[Brains]

Always used snaps for cowtails. Seen too many people stuck with jammed screwgates. Needless faff for minimal benefit

 

[cap n chris]

I use variously Grivel twin snaps and Petzl Vertigo wire lock gates.

 

[andrewmcleod]

My SRT kit is a horrific nightmare of bits of dyneema and maillons everywhere - I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone copied me
I've got the new Aven harness, and I've got a small (6mm?) maillon attached to each of the dyneema loops that go round the leg loops. The left hand one has the safety cord for the hand ascender attached (dynamic 9mm), the right hand one has a bit of dyneema attached to the descender carabiner (as a backup and to help me not drop it), and there is another bit of dyneema joining them with a knot for clipping a heavy bag into (slightly more comfortable than clipping into the right-hand leg-loop-harness-dyneema-loop, which is where I normally clip my bag). My central Omni triact only has my cowstail (Petzl Adjust that I've replaced the rope in which is naughty), a little 10cm quickdraw dogbone (which I clip my Freino/Rig combination into) and the Croll (I like to keep the D-ring uncluttered, unlike everything else!).

As I said before, I wouldn't recommend this to anyone else! But it works for me

 

[rm128]

My SRT kit is a horrific nightmare of bits of dyneema and maillons everywhere

Sounds a bit on the complicated side. I guess the key thing is that you’ve clearly thought about it a lot and found something that works for you. I suspect that, were I to need assistance, I would be happy to see you above me.

 

[Fulk]

Well, I'm utterly gobsmacked that anyone's still using the word 'dinosaur' as a term of abuse. The fact is that the dinosaurs were amazingly well evolved animals, who ruled the roost on this poor old planet for ~165 million years – cf, the mammals, who have been in the ascendency for a mere 65 m years or so. The dinosaurs were spectacular creatures who evolved to occupy virtually all available niches on land – and indeed, in the air, as they acquired the power of flight. Modern thinking is that they did not die out, but survived the mass extinction 65 m years ago (which, incidentally, wiped out all sorts of other creatures – not just (many of) the dinosaurs) and live on as birds.

So – would you just love see a real live dinosaur? OK, just look out of the window.

As for:

Always used snaps for cowtails. Seen too many people stuck with jammed screwgates. Needless faff for minimal benefit

I have screw-gate krabs on my safety cords, but only screw them up if I'm likely to be hanging round on some sort of awkward manoeuvre, rather than as a matter of course, and in my experience this ('Seen too many people stuck with jammed screwgates.') isn't a big problem.

 

[Wardy]

Thanks to Mikem I now realise that I am actually French.
"Who'd a thunk it" - Spoken obviously with my distinctive French accent!

 

[JasonC]

Thanks for this post, RM. I had had exactly the same thoughts reading the threads you refer to, particularly those by the good Captain.
Obviously he's an expert and knows whereof he speaks, but I just felt that if I had to apply that level of 'good practice' every time I went underground - well, I just wouldn't.
Am I an accident waiting to happen? Some who have caved with me probably have reason to think so, but I'm not sure learning a whole lot of new techniques, then forgetting when to use them. would make me any safer...

 

[rm128]

Well, I'm utterly gobsmacked that anyone's still using the word 'dinosaur' as a term of abuse.

No dinosaur abuse here. Some of my best friends are dinosaurs

 

[Fulk]

A "modern" SRT rig probably comprises a Pantin, and maybe a descender which isn't an old version Petzl Stop.

What's wrong with 'an old version Petzl Stop'?

 

[pwhole]

The handle.

 

[rm128]

The handle.

Good point. You’re much better off with a Simple.

 

[Fulk]

Well, I've used a Stop when they were introduced – what – 40 years ago (?), and started using it in preference to a simple. So –personal preference, I guess.