Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
- Thread starter The Old Ruminator
- Start date
cap n chris
Well-known member
Indeed. But the appropriate insurance can be kicked in to cover the cave rescue after the event has commenced, without the circus swarm of unnecessary mainstream emergency services arriving on scene first. By all means have F&R turn up to assist with pumping out flood water, and an ambulance crew being there to convey any casualty(ies) to hospital once they are extracted to surface, but let's have Cave Rescue on scene right from the outset, calling the shots, and overseeing the whole theatre.
Therefore, having a number to alert Cave Rescue without using 999 (which is the villain of the piece, apparently) should work perfectly.
Therefore, having a number to alert Cave Rescue without using 999 (which is the villain of the piece, apparently) should work perfectly.
alastairgott
Well-known member
It's difficult to diagnose the problem, but certainly working with different rescue departments seems to help the problem.
I would argue that in yorkshire the problem of calling the "wrong people" is non existant.
Firstly, because mountain and cave rescue are the same thing.
Secondly, because all the emergency services are a close knit group.
Derbyshire is similar, I guess?
Firstly, the buxton base is home to fire, mountain and cave rescues.
Secondly, because the groups are on the same base, it would be hard for a fire or MR vehicle to pass by the DCRO hq without thinking: "hang on a minute, we're going to a cave!".
They are two very precise examples of where the groups work quite closely with others. In derbyshire we have also had hands on experience of incidents where HART have been called out alongside and we've shown them various different aspects of cave rescue. I believe we now have mutual respect for each other. but i'm sure they would ensure cave rescue were at the scene in the case of a rescue at a cave.
I have no idea of the set up of mendip rescue.
1) how their training works.
2) how many members are trained up and would be called out in an incident. (Would particular members get preference over others, if a new member turned up would the others know their strengths and weaknesses)
3) how an individual or cas care trained rescuer from another base could join.
4) where their base is.
5) how much they liase with local emergency services.
6) how a general member (if they exist) progresses towards being a warden.
I would argue that in yorkshire the problem of calling the "wrong people" is non existant.
Firstly, because mountain and cave rescue are the same thing.
Secondly, because all the emergency services are a close knit group.
Derbyshire is similar, I guess?
Firstly, the buxton base is home to fire, mountain and cave rescues.
Secondly, because the groups are on the same base, it would be hard for a fire or MR vehicle to pass by the DCRO hq without thinking: "hang on a minute, we're going to a cave!".
They are two very precise examples of where the groups work quite closely with others. In derbyshire we have also had hands on experience of incidents where HART have been called out alongside and we've shown them various different aspects of cave rescue. I believe we now have mutual respect for each other. but i'm sure they would ensure cave rescue were at the scene in the case of a rescue at a cave.
I have no idea of the set up of mendip rescue.
1) how their training works.
2) how many members are trained up and would be called out in an incident. (Would particular members get preference over others, if a new member turned up would the others know their strengths and weaknesses)
3) how an individual or cas care trained rescuer from another base could join.
4) where their base is.
5) how much they liase with local emergency services.
6) how a general member (if they exist) progresses towards being a warden.
Oceanrower
Active member
alastairgott said:
https://tinyurl.com/ybc8tvpb
Duncan Price
Active member
tony from suffolk
Well-known member
Good to see the fire brigade got their hoses out. Did they expel the poor lad using water pressure?mikem said:
alastairgott
Well-known member
total brain fart last night, sorry! don't know where I was going.
:spank: :chair:
:spank: :chair:
The Old Ruminator
Well-known member
"Boy trapped in Burrington Coombe caves for three hours after trying to squeeze through rocks like 'Superman' "
And I thought I was " Superman " !
Perhaps his cape got caught on a rock. Apparently it was an outward bound course. I wonder who the cave instructor was ?
And I thought I was " Superman " !
Perhaps his cape got caught on a rock.
Apparently it was an outward bound course. I wonder who the cave instructor was ?
The Old Ruminator
Well-known member
I shall find out tomorrow. A nice crispy tenner in the post will buy my silence
The Old Ruminator
Well-known member
Digging today so the whole story told. A very large gentleman got stuck in " Superman Squeeze " ( which can be avoided ) in Goatchurch. He was released by the MRO by drilling and plug and feathers. It all seemed avoidable and fairly straight forward.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Mildly misleading though TOR; I heard that the leader told the VLG not to go that way and to instead use a side detour but VLG decided to follow his mate(s). Therefore, although avoidable, it wasn't avoided but we can fairly presume who has the egg on face for the unwise decision.
The Old Ruminator
Well-known member
Rightly so oh wise one. :bow: But if this was a novice outward bound exercise where was the duty of care regarding the VLG ? He would have been far better looked after over at
" Wild Wookey ".
" Wild Wookey ".
andrewmcleod
Well-known member
If people don't very occasionally end up in a spot of mild bother on this sort of course then they aren't doing them right - they are 'adventure' courses not 'absolutely no risk' courses. Goatchurch is hardly an excessively dangerous cave for novices...
al
Member
Roger W said:
I usually carry a large tub of grease (as used on boat oars, and cross-channel swimmers) for my VLGs (also known as LTOGs, by the way). Can be applied before or during the trip, as required, or sometimes as a deterrent. No need for plugs - but feathers can sometimes be used to great effect.
The Old Ruminator
Well-known member
andrewmc said:
Maybe but the damage done to the reputation of caving is far reaching. Perhaps such caving " adventures " should be contained within the realm of such professionally run enterprises like " Wild Wookey " and " Wet Wellies " where we have excellent instructors both of which I know well. Lord knows what litigation would have arisen if the VLG had suffered a trauma of any sort. Well presumably " Superman Squeeze " is now passable for even the medically obese.
Duncan Price
Active member
al said:
The Fire & Rescue personnel did ask whether smearing the casualty with washing up liquid would help...
It rather depends on whether the "client" had chosen to go on the trip and made the decision himself to go for the tight section.
I remember a very sad event some years ago involving, I think, a firm's "bonding weekend" where the group were taken caving and were "required" to go, even though some had no interest and others actually very nervous about the idea. One gentleman, who was rather overweight, not at all an "active" type and really didn't want to go caving, got into difficulties in the Letterbox slot on the route from Calf Holes to Browgill. He became extremely distressed, suffered a heart attack and died in the cave. His daughter subsequently contacted NCA to ask for help in avoiding this ever happening to anyone else, saying that he had told her that he didn't want to go caving but felt he couldn't back out because it was organised by his firm. Under the circumstances he hadn't said anything to the instructor prior to the trip to indicate that he wasn't happy.
It's to be hoped that any instructors dealing with a group like this are extremely careful to ensure that those involved actually do, themselves, want to try caving and are given a chance to opt out if they don't want to do it.
I remember a very sad event some years ago involving, I think, a firm's "bonding weekend" where the group were taken caving and were "required" to go, even though some had no interest and others actually very nervous about the idea. One gentleman, who was rather overweight, not at all an "active" type and really didn't want to go caving, got into difficulties in the Letterbox slot on the route from Calf Holes to Browgill. He became extremely distressed, suffered a heart attack and died in the cave. His daughter subsequently contacted NCA to ask for help in avoiding this ever happening to anyone else, saying that he had told her that he didn't want to go caving but felt he couldn't back out because it was organised by his firm. Under the circumstances he hadn't said anything to the instructor prior to the trip to indicate that he wasn't happy.
It's to be hoped that any instructors dealing with a group like this are extremely careful to ensure that those involved actually do, themselves, want to try caving and are given a chance to opt out if they don't want to do it.
Roger W
Well-known member
I'll second that, Jenny.
I've been on management training courses where the participants have been put through various outdoor exercises involving activities that some of them were not at all happy about doing. But the nature of the exercise - peer pressure and the need to prove that you had the leadership potential (?) - made it almost impossible to admit any misgivings, let alone back out.
I've been on management training courses where the participants have been put through various outdoor exercises involving activities that some of them were not at all happy about doing. But the nature of the exercise - peer pressure and the need to prove that you had the leadership potential (?) - made it almost impossible to admit any misgivings, let alone back out.
