Boxhead - Cracker in WET conditions

[Ian P]

Just looking at options for caving over the next couple of days.
The weather is looking rather “moist”. Does anyone have experience of the above caves In very high water ? (Only as an exchange, not going deeper into the system)
No issues with “intimidating” “spray” “ noisy” etc.

TIA
Ian

 

[langcliffe]

Just looking at options for caving over the next couple of days.
The weather is looking rather “moist”. Does anyone have experience of the above caves In very high water ? (Only as an exchange, not going deeper into the system)
No issues with “intimidating” “spray” “ noisy” etc.

TIA
Ian

I wouldn't like to come up the top pitch of Cracker when it's very wet, but I reckon it should be passable.

 

[Ian P]

I wouldn't like to come up the top pitch of Cracker when it's very wet, but I reckon it should be passable.

Thanks Langcliffe

Assume a down and out of Boxhead would be more “amenable” ?

Ian

 

[DaveyDubz]

I wouldn't like to come up the top pitch of Cracker when it's very wet, but I reckon it should be passable.

I would second this, going up the top pitch of Its a cracker the day after a night of heavy rain is unpleasant but possible (mainly bad for the derigger).
Boxhead is ok as although the first pitch does take water you are out of it if you use the deviation. Just note that with water flowing over the ledge above the next pitch the stones are a bit more unstable, but ok if you take care. Not so much of a issue if you do the Kendal flyover route.

 

[Cavematt]

I'd concur with the above regarding Cracker; only the top of the first pitch would cause me concern, but I can't imagine it being impassable.

For Boxhead, my understanding is that it is passable via Kendal Flyover route in all but the most serious of conditions. You will definitely want the deviation at the top of the entrance shaft (actually, I have a hunch there may be two, but only one shown on the topo... feel free to report back to us on that). The Main Shaft will be unpleasant until you swing off into the Kendal Flyover, but acceptable.

However, there is a caveat... My club rigged Boxhead for Eurospeleo in 2016, and we returned to derig it at the end of the final extrodinarily wet weekend. We peered down the entrance pipe to see water flying in all directions and the rope being whipped ferociously around the entrance shaft. It did not look sensible to descend; But they were really quite exceptional conditions.

We decided that we all fancied some tea and cake and the Eurospeleo derigging got postponed for a week

 

[rm128]

Thanks Langcliffe

Assume a down and out of Boxhead would be more “amenable” ?

Ian

Boxhead via the Kendal Flyover and using all 3 deviations on the 1st pitch should be ok. If conditions are very wet, it could potentially be a bit moist for a very short distance below the pipe on the 1st pitch. You could even explore the Tate Galleries with no issues.

 

[mikem]

Tomorrow could be quite wet (weather forecast talking 90mm in some locations)

 

[Ian P]

Tomorrow could be quite wet (weather forecast talking 90mm in some locations)

Tomorrow’s trip is sorted, getting options for the day after 🤞

 

[Andrew N]

Tomorrow’s trip is sorted, getting options for the day after 🤞

If it helps decide, I rigged Lost Johns Centipede route all the way to the master cave yesterday and won't be derigging it until the first week of 2024 as I am doing another couple trips in there.

 

[Fulk]

So, Andrew, is that a 'hint' that you don't mind other people using your rope?

 

[Andrew N]

So, Andrew, is that a 'hint' that you don't mind other people using your rope?

I obviously could never propose to suggest to other people what to do! But personally, I would feel rather guilty if someone went down Lost Johns and carried all that tackle only to find it was all rigged.

 

[Fjell]

If you do go down Lost Johns, Cracker or Boxhead today do let let us know how you found it. Useful data point as one can compare it to the river gauges. The Lune near Kirkby prob peaked at something like 50 m3/s yesterday.

 

[zzzzzzed]

The initial crawl at the bottom of the scaffolding in 'It's a Cracker' can become a white water stream when it's VERY wet

 

[langcliffe]

The initial crawl at the bottom of the scaffolding in 'It's a Cracker' can become a white water stream when it's VERY wet

You can always take the original route over the top.

 

[mikem]

River Brathay (top of Windermere) yesterday:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1740147446406434833

 

[Fjell]

River Brathay (top of Windermere) yesterday:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1740147446406434833

Yeah, we were in Ambleside yesterday so the chickens could watch some Studio Ghibli. It was running.

When it comes to It’s a Cracker I am disinclined to use the original rift, so wondered what the flat out crawl would be like in raging flood. Underwater I had assumed.

 

[langcliffe]

We should never have pandered to our large-chested colleague, and dug out that crawl. It knocked a grade off the place!

 

[Fjell]

We should never have pandered to our large-chested colleague, and dug out that crawl. It knocked a grade off the place!

There does seem to have been a standard set in recent years of only blasting to fit a max chest size of about 38”. On the other hand the bolting requires you to be at least 5’9” or so. There’s a pattern somewhere….

 

[Chocolate fireguard]

That rift was the only awkward part of the whole place, but worth struggling with for the sake of a couple of lovely pitches.

 

[langcliffe]

There does seem to have been a standard set in recent years of only blasting to fit a max chest size of about 38”. On the other hand the bolting requires you to be at least 5’9” or so. There’s a pattern somewhere….

I don't think any blasting / capping was done by the original explorers. We just spent five minutes digging out some cobbles.