Calling cave rescue via 999 ?

Ian P

Ian P

Administrator
Staff member
After a recent discussion with someone regarding how to call cave rescue, it got me wondering if there was any other route to use ? Im thinking the 101 number?

Calling 999 to report “Bob and Bill late from an Easegill trip “ would feel a bit “awkward” in the current climate. Calling having just witnessed my caving partner have a serious accident would feel very different obviously.

Just curious if the 101 route would work?
 
skippy

skippy

Active member
I see no reason why 999 should not be called.
The 999 controller puts you straight through to the police controller who in turn contacts MRT/CRO.
I don't see what the current climate has to do with dialling 999?
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
999 is the established procedure and even then it often goes awry as the call handlers receive so few that they're convinced it's Fire and Rescue who deal, rather than cavers operating under Home Office insurance via the Police.
 
I

IanWalker

Active member
Have you emailed CRO to ask their opinion? Contact details on website.

CRO have an account and a forum on UKCaving too

Would be interested to hear back with your findings
 
alanw

alanw

Well-known member
When dialling 101 you might be put in a queue. However, you will be asked to which police force you wish to be connected.

I had major problems getting through to CRO when I needed their assistance to assist someone with suspected appendicitis from the BPC Gaping Gill winch meet.

INCIDENT 36/2022 MAY 28th SAT. 08.40 Nr GAPING GILL HOLE, CLAPHAM, NORTH YORKSHIRE – MOUNTAIN INCIDENT – The Cave Rescue Organisation

cro.org.uk cro.org.uk

The mobile phone mast to which my phone connected must have been in Lancashire. I was put through to Lancashire Police, when I was in North Yorkshire. It took almost an hour to be called back by CRO, and then only after I had dialled 101 to get through to North Yorks Police.

On top of that was the farce with being asked for a "What 3 Words" location, which Lancs Police then said put me at Ingleborough Cave, not GG.

I've raised complaints, to no avail, with both Police Forces so I've then raised the issue with the IOPC.

There seems to be no way for one police force to transfer a call through to another, nor to set up a three way call between the caller, the police and CRO.

Note that the police must be contacted in order for the rescue organisation callout to be "legally official".
 
Babyhagrid

Babyhagrid

Well-known member
alanw said:
When dialling 101 you might be put in a queue. However, you will be asked to which police force you wish to be connected.

I had major problems getting through to CRO when I needed their assistance to assist someone with suspected appendicitis from the BPC Gaping Gill winch meet.

INCIDENT 36/2022 MAY 28th SAT. 08.40 Nr GAPING GILL HOLE, CLAPHAM, NORTH YORKSHIRE – MOUNTAIN INCIDENT – The Cave Rescue Organisation

cro.org.uk cro.org.uk

The mobile phone mast to which my phone connected must have been in Lancashire. I was put through to Lancashire Police, when I was in North Yorkshire. It took almost an hour to be called back by CRO, and then only after I had dialled 101 to get through to North Yorks Police.

On top of that was the farce with being asked for a "What 3 Words" location, which Lancs Police then said put me at Ingleborough Cave, not GG.

I've raised complaints, to no avail, with both Police Forces so I've then raised the issue with the IOPC.

There seems to be no way for one police force to transfer a call through to another, nor to set up a three way call between the caller, the police and CRO.

Note that the police must be contacted in order for the rescue organisation callout to be "legally official".
Click to expand...
the issue with calling from a different area is a worry sometimes. as I've been callout for a friend who is down a Mendip cave whilst I'm sat in Cardiff. have been told to just ask for the correct area and cave rescue team. but as it's never happened i don't know the exact protocol?
 
Shapatti

Shapatti

New member
Babyhagrid said:
the issue with calling from a different area is a worry sometimes. as I've been callout for a friend who is down a Mendip cave whilst I'm sat in Cardiff. have been told to just ask for the correct area and cave rescue team. but as it's never happened i don't know the exact protocol?
Click to expand...
I've personally seen an issue with calling cave rescue out from a different region. Took a very long time (About an hour and half and several phone calls) to convince the police handler in another part of the country that we really really wanted to be put through to Devon police and that yes this a sport that people do for fun and noone is in danger in social terms (The Handler couldn't understand why someone could take their kids caving and it not have abusive intentions or similar...)

Luckily in this case we managed to also contact a DevCRO warden that we knew personally, and let him know what was going on whilst we were arguing with the Police.

It would be good to know if there are any decent procedures in place with the police for actioning incidents in different cave regions as virtual callouts are now very normal and not everyone lives in the same regions.
 
caving_fox

caving_fox

Active member
Can CRO contact the police and ask for a callout to be made legal? - they'd at least be asking the correct local force. But then that relies on cavers knowing a local CRO person which probably isn't the case for anyone visiting an area, who are most likely to have their callout coming from somewhere else...
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
It's not a case of legal vs illegal. The team must be called out by the police in order to have insurance cover. The details of summoning help have been looked at many times over many decades since cave rescue became formalised and the outcome has always been the same; keep things as simple as possible. So it's a 999er - but try to give the clearest possible information to the call handler to minimise potential confusion
 
Babyhagrid

Babyhagrid

Well-known member
I also assume that if you do end up with the wrong cave rescue team contacted that they can sort that out internally. EG , if SMWCRT are contacted as the 999 is made in Wales , but the rescue is in mendip, can SMWCRT then call MCR to forward the information onto them?
 
paul

paul

Moderator
Yes. There have also been occasions where a CR Team in one area request assistance from other CR Teams as in the recent major OFD rescue. The first step after calling 999 is to try and specify which Police force you want to be put through to, as this will help when they in turn contact their allocated CR Team.
 
alanw

alanw

Well-known member
paul said:
try and specify which Police force you want to be put through to
Click to expand...
I'm afraid this didn't work for me. I clearly asked for "Cave Rescue Organisation, Clapham, North Yorkshire", but all that Lancashire Police would do was take my details and tell me I would be called back. See above for details.
 
M

mikem

Well-known member
You should have asked to be put through to north Yorkshire police. However, Lancashire & Cumbria should be able to connect to CRO, as they do cover both their patches.
 
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paul

paul

Moderator
In this case tell the 999 responder you want "North Yorkshire Police" and then the tell the NY Police you want Cave Rescue. They should then contact CRO at Clapham. Each Police Force has an allocated CR Team and they should know which to pass the call out onto. The 999 responder may not have even heard of Cave Rescue, but Police should be aware, especially in the major caving regions.
 
alanw

alanw

Well-known member
This is verbatim from Lancashire Police's response to my complaint. Note the last sentence. Also, "CRO would know all about it" refers to the BPC winch meet at Gaping Gill.

I note that you called the Police on 29.5.22 at 7:54am and spoke to Lancashire Police.
Your call was taken by a call handler who asked you for the What Three Words location which you provided. The call handler explained that she would just need to check the location which she did and then asked for your name, she then spoke to you to ask you what had happened. You explained that your partner had suspected appendicitis and that CRO would know all about it. The call handler took some details from you then had to place you on hold briefly while she checked some details. She then contacted the Force Incident manager for advice regarding the next steps. It was identified that the incident occurred in North Yorkshire and that the matter would need to be transferred to North Yorkshire Police. You were advised that we were trying to source the best agency to help and that further contact would be made with you to advise on the next steps and timescales. The matter was transferred to North Yorkshire Police at 8:05am and it was confirmed at 8:15am that North Yorkshire Police had the details and were working on the matter. Our log stated that they would contact CRO and would call you back regarding timescales. You called back at 8:39am to ask for an update. The call handler that you spoke to advised for you to call 101 and ask to speak to North Yorkshire Police directly as they would be able to give you a better time frame.
 
first-ade

first-ade

Member
As Paul said, when calling 999 you first get through to the BT call handler who will ask which service you want, fire, police, etc. At this point specify the region, ie North Yorkshire police. That should stop the difficulties of having to get an incident moved between forces.
 
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