Cave communication for a rescue team

Jopo

Active member
Big downside of these sets is cave conservation, often in the past after a major rescue or flooding in a rescue have caused these lines to become abandoned and litter the cave. With as you say possibility of many kms of line, then not only do they require quite a few personnel to bring them in, they are also a mammoth task to bring back out again all when everyone's primary concern is the causality or the safety of their team meets, I can see why these have been left in caves in the past.

True in the days of No 9 BT steel drop wire which was available in vast quantities. With PTFE coated thin gauge wire cleaning up, and laying, is a much less onerous task. There is really no excuse to not clearing up. Having organised several cleanups of old wire I will be the first to admit that there are still miles of the old stuff in some long SW caves, usually crammed up in some convenient corner or buried in a choke. The same goes for a lot of bang wire. I think (hope) teams and cavers have moved forward on the conservation front.

Jopo
 

Duncan Price

Active member
Jopo said:
The South and Mid Wales CRT have used single wire earth return or twin wire hand held sets for years (49 in my experience). There are many designs available on sites like CREG. They are simple cheap and ideal for semi skilled home construction. The only operating downside of single and twin wire is that both ends have to be manned although some designs have a simple buzzer alert. They are almost bomb proof as long as the single wire is in good condition and the operators remember to ground the sets using gloveless hands (yes it has happened more than once). They will work over kilometers  and have no problems with mineralization or radio interference. The only practical downside we ever found was relying on fixed lines. Unless the wire is high quality, corrosion resist and regularly tested they will always let you down. There are twin wire designs which have the advantage of duplex speak (no press to talk) and having the power supplied from the base station (single wire normally have a small 9v cell in each set)
Big advantage of wired sets is that rescuers who are not familiar with the system can follow the wire :).

Might be worth approaching the UK teams via the British Cave Rescue Council to see if there are any redundant single sets out there.

Jopo

I have to agree with Jopo over the simplicity and reliability of single/dual wire coms.  I've used Molephones,  CaveLink and Heyphones and found that although CaveLink in particular has a lot of fancy features it doesn't always deliver the goods.  For example, I was the victim in the RESCON 19 evacuation of an injured cave diver through the sumps between Wookey 22 and 19.  Despite having practiced with the kit between the same two points on an earlier exercise, on the day the unit in 22 hadn't been paired with the one in 9 (dive base).  We had to send out a runner (swimmer?) with details memorised as no one has a diver's slate or wetnotes to record stuff.  A wired telephone line would have been easy to install (after all it could have been cable tied to the guideline).  I helped put some of the cable in during a rescue from the bottom of Daren Cilau many years ago and found it very easy.

Apparently there are no longer field telephones available for cave rescue on Mendip.  The last time one was used was a privately owned system in Wookey when the tunnelling was taking place so that comms could be established between 20 and 9.
 

aricooperdavis

Moderator
Duncan Price said:
Apparently there are no longer field telephones available for cave rescue on Mendip.

I think there are as we practiced using them at RESCON19, although they had intermittent connection problems with the batteries so it's possible that they have since been retired? They were excellent (if a bit heavy!)  :)
 

estelle

Member
aricooperdavis said:
Duncan Price said:
Apparently there are no longer field telephones available for cave rescue on Mendip.

I think there are as we practiced using them at RESCON19, although they had intermittent connection problems with the batteries so it's possible that they have since been retired? They were excellent (if a bit heavy!)  :)
The field telephones we used at ResCon didn't belong to Mendip, they were brought down by BCRC comms officer from the North Wales team.
 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
Devon CRO was still using Francephones a few years ago (small handheld single wire telephones) - and to be honest, given the length of Devon caves they would probably be the _first_ communication system set up.
 

aricooperdavis

Moderator
estelle said:
The field telephones we used at ResCon didn't belong to Mendip, they were brought down by BCRC comms officer from the North Wales team.

My mistake, thanks Estelle! Very good of the North Wales team to bring them down, they were good bits of kit to have a play with :)
 

Stuart France

Active member
Single-wire phones are your cheapest and easiest way forward.  I build a batch of about 30 handsets and 10 base stations for UK rescue teams that ordered them during 2013.  They paid ?43 per handset and ?64 per base station which represents the parts rather than labour.

These were designed to eliminate all known hassles with the previous generation of caving field phones:
1) stop people from turning them off in the cave (complicated procedure to turn it off once it is on)
2) make them last on three AA cells for over a day's use and step up to a constant 12 volts internally regardless of battery voltage droop
3) turns itself off after many hours of inactivity
4) can send call tones and roger beeps
5) military standard waterproof mic/speaker
6) circuit is potted (not the battery of course) and a single IP68 push button to control everything.

It's written up in the BCA CREJ No.82
http://bcra.org.uk/pub/cregj/index.html?j=82

but you need a login to download the PDF of the article.  That article in Word format and other info about it is in zip file links at:
http://www.linetop.co.uk/cssdata/swt.htm

As to which teams might have spare units they might give away to a good cause:  Gloucester GRG took 10 handsets and SMWCRT took 8.

I may have a few spare PCBs and excess components somewhere, but I've not looked at this since 2013!
 

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yuvals

Member
Stuart France said:
Single-wire phones are your cheapest and easiest way forward.  I build a batch of about 30 handsets and 10 base stations for UK rescue teams that ordered them during 2013.  They paid ?43 per handset and ?64 per base station which represents the parts rather than labour.

These were designed to eliminate all known hassles with the previous generation of caving field phones:
1) stop people from turning them off in the cave (complicated procedure to turn it off once it is on)
2) make them last on three AA cells for over a day's use and step up to a constant 12 volts internally regardless of battery voltage droop
3) turns itself off after many hours of inactivity
4) can send call tones and roger beeps
5) military standard waterproof mic/speaker
6) circuit is potted (not the battery of course) and a single IP68 push button to control everything.

It's written up in the BCA CREJ No.82
http://bcra.org.uk/pub/cregj/index.html?j=82

but you need a login to download the PDF of the article.  That article in Word format and other info about it is in zip file links at:
http://www.linetop.co.uk/cssdata/swt.htm

As to which teams might have spare units they might give away to a good cause:  Gloucester GRG took 10 handsets and SMWCRT took 8.

I may have a few spare PCBs and excess components somewhere, but I've not looked at this since 2013!

Thanks, that is relay helpful.
Why do you need base station? As far as I understand "Michies" are symmetrical and can be used for both ends of the system.
 

Fred

Member
I'm sure Stuart will reply but having a little knowledge of the Gloucestershire Cave Rescue Group's units I can say there aren't any spare - they are still very much part of their frontline kit.

Regarding the handsets, your right you don't need a specific base station unit. In fact there is a "base station mode" into whcih any unit can be switched - this turns off the auto shut down for example.

The specific base station units have an external speaker and an input for external 12v power - no issue of batteries running out and more appropriate for the control location. The increased price reflects the extra components.
 

Stuart France

Active member
Yes Fred is right - you don't actually need a base station.  Any number of handsets can mutually communicate over a single piece of wire (or one laid out in any topology like a Y shape etc) without any base station in the system.

The idea of a base station is the loudspeaker enables everyone in the control room to hear what's going on.  When it's confidential you turn the loudspeaker volume low and the base station operator then listens then via the mil-spec earpiece/mic that in his/her hand since the base station's handset looks just like the underground ones with a PTT push button on the side.

The only 'issue' was that these base stations were designed as 4.5 volts units running from 3xD cells as compared to 3xAA cells in the cave handsets and both designs boost this up to 12 volts internally.  Cave Rescue would not accept primary cells being in a base station and they insisted on having 12 volt lead acid batteries to power the base stations instead.  Goodness knows why as D cells have a shelf life of 5 years and a run time for the base station of 10 days.

Design by committee as ever caused some gremlins, but I think the BCRA CREGJ article shows the original 4.5 volt base station version which is Ok.
 

Stuart France

Active member
OK, the good news is I've had a rummage in my toy box this week and found a few of the now obsolete mil-spec 4T earpieces and some spare circuit boards, already soldered up, for the cave phone handsets.  I've also got a dozen of some "4T-lookalike" earpieces (not military) that I bought cheap on eBay speculatively.  There are none on eBay right now.

The soldered phone circuit boards were made years ago when the BCRC batch of cave phones were manufacturered as spare parts that have never been needed but were funded in price of the delivered handsets, anticipating some hassles I would have to sort out later on.  But I've had no returns of defective cave handsets in 6 years which says something about the design/build or the ability of teams to fix stuff themselves.

So if any bona fide rescue team wants to get in touch with me via a PM then I may be able to sort you out with free PCBs and other parts.  I don't have any left of the metal boxes to house the phones.



 

Fred

Member
However I've heard from a reliable source within the BCRC that Felix is working on a successor to the current CaveLink. Also support is still available, I know that within the last 6 months he sent out several new keyboards, free of charge, to one of the UK teams with CaveLink.
 

Alex

Well-known member
I believe Cave Link is now out of production  :(

If that's true, that is quite worrying. I hope they still deal with repairs,  but I guess they could no longer replace them?
 
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