caving clubs insurance

[Jagman]

Graham, you are right I will only require insurance IF I choose to visit these particular places, my comment was referring to the increasing amount of places this applies too, which I may never do.....
If I can invent mythical places then I need never leave my armchair, if and when I keep secrets I do so at the specific request of a site owner, not for my own benefit.

I make no bones that in an ideal world I strongly favour access for all

Martinr, what I actually said was that I have never had a landowner request insurance, rest of your statement did'nt come from me.

Quite frankly we've been over this argument time after time and we will probably never see eye to eye. I think its time we just agreed to disagree and go about it in our own ways

 

[martinr]

Martinr, what I actually said was that I have never had a landowner request insurance, rest of your statement did'nt come from me.

Apologies for any misquotation

 

[cap n chris]

It appears that I have a dilemma... I can see both sides of the argument! I think this thread is well debated or are there still loose ends?

 

[andymorgan]

I have one final point! (although it isn't really part of the main debate)

Does it neccessarily have to be BCA PL insurance?

It needn't be BCA. It is just that, for many cavers, the BCA scheme is the only PL insurance available now.

The reason why I say that is beacuse I know that in at least one case and I think a few others, access requires BCA or DCA insurance only. I suppose it may just be a case of talking to the access bodies and showing the extent of cover to be allowed access with other insurance.

 

[Sewer Rat]

oooh creepy
sombody must be watching.
I just recieved my green card in the post today :roll:

 

[braveduck]

Now ponder this one,if you have house insurance(not contents),buildings etc,you automaticaly have public liability insurance.You will not find this on the policy document,but has existed since this type of insurance began.
It is a grand safety net for all maner of things. Now before you wade in with if's and but's.Fact if you damage someone or someones property ie car, with your bicycle, this type of insurance covers you!!!!!!
I sucessfuly clamed agaist a teenager who ran into my car when it was parked,causing £80 of damage,the house holder was astonished that I was able to claim from their house insurance.Again this was not in any policy document but it it paid out without any problems.That £80 would be well over £200 in todays money.
I now wonder just how far this public liability could be pushed if it came to it,because they don,t ask lots of difficult questions about life styles, just the value of the property.They don't ask if you ride a bike,do they?
Any legal beagals out there who can throw more light on this one?

 

[cap n chris]

Aha, but could you claim on your policy against someone (probably not a teenager, admittedly!) using high explosives which led to a cave collapse breaking your legs?

 

[graham]

Now ponder this one,if you have house insurance(not contents),buildings etc,you automaticaly have public liability insurance.You will not find this on the policy document,but has existed since this type of insurance began.
It is a grand safety net for all maner of things. Now before you wade in with if's and but's.Fact if you damage someone or someones property ie car, with your bicycle, this type of insurance covers you!!!!!!
I sucessfuly clamed agaist a teenager who ran into my car when it was parked,causing £80 of damage,the house holder was astonished that I was able to claim from their house insurance.Again this was not in any policy document but it it paid out without any problems.That £80 would be well over £200 in todays money.
I now wonder just how far this public liability could be pushed if it came to it,because they don,t ask lots of difficult questions about life styles, just the value of the property.They don't ask if you ride a bike,do they?
Any legal beagals out there who can throw more light on this one?

Aye, easy, your house policy won't cover you for caving incidents.

 

[mudmonkey]

Interesting one that, Braveduck. I'm unconvinced by it 'cos if it worked as generally as you imply, we wouldn't need PL insurance for a car...

 

[AndyF]

The wording on my policy covers public liability "AS A HOUSHOLDER"

This would cover roof tiles falling off and decapitating someone, a wall falling over or drunken teenagers drowning in your fishpond, but does not cover you when acting a role as a "caver" - unless you have a cave in you garden...

 

[martinr]

Now ponder this one,if you have house insurance(not contents),buildings etc,you automaticaly have public liability insurance.

Good try, Braveduck, but it wont work.

My club on Mendip has a cottage which has buildings insurance. We therefore have some basic PLI insurance. However, when you read the fine print, you discover that this will not (repeat NOT) cover you for any public liability that arises from caving. As it is a bog standard buildings insurance policy, you can rest assured that your buildings insurance will not cover you for caving PLI either, but you may wish to check the fine print to be sure.

Once upon a time, long long ago, it was possible to take out an additional policy (in addition to the bog standard building PLI) to cover PL arising from caving, but our insurer (in those days, Eagle Star) soon realised that their liability in the event of a claim (£1million in those days) far exceed the premium they were charging us (£100). The problem was that they only had one or two policy holders who wished to be covered for caving PLI. So they were only taking £200 in premiums but were exposing themselves to a potential payout of £1 million. Our premium was going up by about 25% every year (were they were trying to give us a hint we were not welcome?) until Eagle Star finally said they didnt want to insure us anymore. At the time, we could by better insurance specifically for caving PLI by joining the BCRA scheme. This was, I recall, in the mid to late 1980s and the premium was £1 per member. As we had 100 members, this was £100 per year.

The BCA scheme is the best we can get now for caving PLI.