Chest Straps/Harnesses

[Pitlamp]

Thanks for the ideas - I saw Tim on Saturday; wish I'd known as I'd have asked him about that idea. I'll see him again soon enough.

Simon - I hope Burnley Bob is mending now - please give him my regards when you see him.

 

[badger]

I have used a le pompe, for me the advantage of going up was massively off set at change overs, probably me, but I was forever getting myself tied in knots with the string attachment to the croll, and before taking off cowstails, was having to take the string out of the croll, untangling and putting back in,
but like I said probably me doing it wrong

 

[badger]

oh and I used to use a torse, liked it very much, similar problems as chris with connection to the back but then mine had a metal buckle, it started to fray a bit and also lost its ability to stay tight once tightened up when on the rope, now use a chest strap

 

[Maj]

1" tape tied to a steel buckle.
Allowing for knot it appears to be about 2.6m long. I find it very comfortable & quick and easy to adjust, but I've never tried any of the others so unable to comment on how they perform, but I've never been keen on the idea of a plastic clip buckle on the back.

Maj.

 

[rsch]

http://www.starlessriver.com/shop/chest_harnesses/alp_design_bunny

Anybody tried these?

Iv been using a serpentine chest strap for years. Was thinking what would be quicker and easier to adjust.

After many years of using the traditional eight-odd foot of tape, I wondered if any of the more structured options that had appeared in the meantime might be any better and tried several of those.

This was the one I got on best with by some way, having found it provided the fit closest to that of the traditional tape where I can easily vary distance\tension between Croll and sternum without adding any need to attach to the rear of the waist or anywhere else. My SRT style may not be the most elegant or efficient, either with a tape or with this, but I'm comfortable enough that I can do plenty of it and some people occasionally needing to learn to be a fraction more patient is a small enough problem that I can live with it!

It works very well for me - the only way to find out if it works for you is to give it a go.

 

[Ian]

I have used a le pompe, for me the advantage of going up was massively off set at change overs, probably me, but I was forever getting myself tied in knots with the string attachment to the croll, and before taking off cowstails, was having to take the string out of the croll, untangling and putting back in,
but like I said probably me doing it wrong

Don't think it was you. I also used le pompe which made climbing easy (if very slow) but every changeover was a major risk of getting tied up in knots. I decided it was the routes of the additional cords which meant you could only remove /refit the ascender in one specific way - which was counter intuitive to the way I expected.

 

[Fulk]

I've tried the pompe, which it appears to me is a development of the MAO system, and although it works, it's very slow; I can't imagine why anyone would use it unless, perhaps, they were prusiking with something vey heavy.

 

[NewStuff]

Another tall (6'3") Torse user here. I can stand up with it. I prefer a Climbing harness (Yeah, yeah, I've heard it before, I prefer it, so deal with it) with the higher attachment point, so it's got loads of room in it, easily over a foot after the buckle when fully upright, meaning I get to be creative with keeping it out of the way when like a trussed turkey on ascent. It's a red model, 3ish years old.

 

[Blakethwaite]

Mine is a sort of dysentery shade of yellow I think and probably 6 or 7 years old. Maybe they were originally designed for a Gallic rather than Anglo-Saxon market?

 

[Joe90]

Thanks for the input people,

Helps a lot.

 

[Disgusted from Cornwall.]

I have 2 sets of kit. My light kit (AV Muruck and Torse) and my heavy kit, (MTDE Picos and Garma). The torse is fine, but it's lacking somewhat. The Garma is a fine fine piece of kit and has scope for a chest roller for rope walking.

I used to use a caving supplies chest tape and found that better than the torse. The trick with a torse is to fix the back strap and then attach the croll with the free end, not the other way around.

the MTDE kit is very very good. 

 

[Amy]

I love my Pup's Pal (http://onrope1.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=1085) it is just a bungee slid through tubular webbing for comfort and durability. I thought it would suck to carry loads until I spoke to Pup himself (pup is short for mudpuppy by the way, not sure what you call those critters across the pond!) who has done multiple expeditions into Lechuguilla (involves lots of ropework) and most those packs are 30-40 pounds. Trick is you tie yourself a handy lanyard of appropriate length, loop it up through one harness leg loop, across to the other and back down. Clip both ends to your pack. This puts the weight you carry into the seat of your harness, and you almost plumb don't feel it at all. I LOVE this method of climbing with weight and use it pretty much exclusively now, frogging or ropewalking! because the seat harness is taking the weight, your chest tape never does, so it doesn't throw you off at all (and in fact I find balances me and almost makes climbing *easier*)

 

[Kenilworth]

I thought it would suck to carry loads... Trick is you tie yourself a handy lanyard of appropriate length, loop it up through one harness leg loop, across to the other and back down. Clip both ends to your pack. This puts the weight you carry into the seat of your harness, and you almost plumb don't feel it at all... because the seat harness is taking the weight, your chest tape never does

Aye, but how would that work for a pickoff? Will have to try...

 

[Amy]

I don't think I would put a pick off on my leg loops...are they rated for weight like that?
I've always attached someone else to either my half round or to the eye of my rappel rack (great way to rappel someone or something down without the weight in your harness at all). We don't do many pickoffs here even for small party rescue. NCRC I don't think even teaches it anymore but with our rigging usually just lowering or hauling them is quick and easy whereas I'm guessing with your rigging that doesn't work so well most times. I wish they still taught pickoffs as I am very rusty on them! Let me know how it works when you try it.

 

[Kenilworth]

tie yourself a handy lanyard of appropriate length, loop it up through one harness leg loop, across to the other and back down. Clip both ends to your pack.

After messing about, some observations. Though it does work well for hauling, I suspect that hanging a pack from the leg loops may have as much to do with minimizing testicular discomfort as it does with facilitating the use of a bungee chest harness. However, when lifting a lot of weight, the method described pulls the legs together uncomfortably and creates potential wear points on the bottom of the leg loops.

Let me know how it works when you try it.

Therefore, when doing the pickoff, I used a short length of rope; bunny-ears on one end and a biner on the other. Clipping the ears to the leg loops allowed range of movement and put less stress on the loops. Lifting the "victim" was easy (my wife insisted that I demonstrate on a heavy air compressor before she would volunteer to be such). The changeover was complicated only by the fact that my normal stance when unloading the chest ascender puts me quite on tiptoe, which negated the leverage created by hanging the load from the leg loops. I solved this problem by shortening the footloop a bit via girth hitch. No other problems.

I don't think I would put a pick off on my leg loops...are they rated for weight like that? ...I wish they still taught pickoffs as I am very rusty on them!

I don't much concern myself with ratings. I have no worries about the strength of the leg loops in a typical caving harness. NCRC likely had good reason to abandon pickoff training. People simply cannot be trusted to maintain their proficiency, even while they may maintain the belief that they know what they're doing. Nonetheless, the pickoff concept is relatively simple and can be learned and practiced safely and independently of any training from anyone. I do not intend to ever perform a pickoff in real life, but the ability to do so is yet another tool that can contribute to confidence, and to safety.

 

[Mike Hopley]

Though it does work well for hauling, I suspect that hanging a pack from the leg loops may have as much to do with minimizing testicular discomfort as it does with facilitating the use of a bungee chest harness.

Yes. I was so happy the day I found out about this.

However, when lifting a lot of weight, the method described pulls the legs together uncomfortably and creates potential wear points on the bottom of the leg loops.

I find this preferable to creating wear points on my testicles.

The hauling setup I use is to thread a short sling through the leg loops, and clip the tacklesack to that. This creates a sort-of "Y hang" like your bunny ears pickoff setup, rather than the "V hang" that Amy described. I find this the most comfortable arrangement in all respects.

Alternatively two separate slings can be used, which would create more of a Y.

However, there are quite a few options that can be tried. For example, some people run a sling through the harness attachment loops.

 

[Kenilworth]

However, there are quite a few options that can be tried. 

Yep, as I've tried it a couple of more times, I realize that the bunny-ears setup is unnecessarily bulky. Enough toying around usually leads to a good solution.

 

[Amy]

I do believe that is a part of the reason NCRC stopped with it (I think they still teach it in higher levels someone said, though), also, with our rigging really there is less chance for error and enough people/rope/rigging type is easy for just lowering the person onto the ground to get them off their harness quick, or if there is a bit more time to create a haul system. Although I agree, tool in the toolbox, and know someone who did a modified pickoff just last week to get a buddy when she got stuck in a waterfall, hair caught in the descender (one of those one thing leads to another scenarios...) so they can be of handy use! But by not teaching it, it means more likely only someone who is truly proficient at it will attempt it rather than "hey I learned this once x years ago!"

Thanks for the observations, I find it helpful and interesting!

 

[David Rose]

I'm 6 ft 3 inches tall. On longer trips, especially in deep caves abroad with lots of mud and grit around, I've come to detest all types of strap chest harness. If they're at a tension suitable for prussiking, they leave me hunched over in a position impossible to cave in. But if the buckle and strap get a bit muddy and clogged up, they soon become an incredible pain to adjust.

Last year in the Picos I tried a Garma. Bliss, and worth every penny. The buckle design means they can be tightened or slackened immediately with no fuss. The bra design is so much more comfortable. No creeping shoulder aches. No pressure at the base of the neck. You forget you're wearing one. And for me (a long body, relative to my legs) they seem to keep me much closer to the rope, reducing arm strain and making climbing a pleasure. A five star purchase.

 

[Mike Hopley]

That's exactly how I feel about my Garma too. Plus you can hang rigging kit off it.