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Climbing wall rules

mikem

Well-known member
Colours used & designs also change over time (if your harness is old enough then it won't have a serial number!)
I seem to recall that word being used, more than once.....along with a very calm call to 'please get your weight off the ropes as soon as you can, and don't fall off again.'. Or something like that.....
The disintegrating belay may well have absorbed a lot of the force.
 

topcat

Active member
^^^ for sure. Also, lots of hitting stuff on the way down. It was another example of Top Cat's Luck, and one of my nine lives!
 

hannahb

Active member
How do they know how old your harness is anyway? And what if it'd sat in a dark cupboard in a shop for 2 or 3 years before you bought it? Are we all supposed to carry a wallet full of receipts for gear we've bought now? Not really looking for answers here, just musing on how an arbitrary 5 year "rule" isn't really very meaningful. I suppose it's good for business though.

They asked me, perhaps because the colours give it away (orange and black not very trendy now), and I told them. I guess I could have lied but I didn't know they were going to ask me to stop using it.

I don't like it either, but after the discussion here I agree that if I'm going to climb indoors, which I am, then I'm going to abide by the rules.
 

georgenorth

Active member
They asked me, perhaps because the colours give it away (orange and black not very trendy now), and I told them. I guess I could have lied but I didn't know they were going to ask me to stop using it.

I don't like it either, but after the discussion here I agree that if I'm going to climb indoors, which I am, then I'm going to abide by the rules.
Sounds like the wall staff didn’t handle it very well either. To say that your harness is dangerous and will fail is wrong and completely unhelpful.
If they’re going to have this rule then they should be able to explain properly why they have it, and also apply it consistently. My experience of wall staff is that they pick on inexperienced climbers (particularly women) whilst ignoring the sometimes very dodgy practices of experienced climbers!
 

BikinGlynn

Member
By this do you mean they ‘look alright’ after well over 10 years, or do you mean that they saved you from a more serious concussion following a collision with the pavement in a helmet over 10 years old vs the exact same incident that you repeated for testing purposes with a new one? A bike helmet in particular, you don’t need it until you really really do - not to pick on your language in particular but I think this “it looks alright” argument gets used a lot.

Replacing a bike helmet every 10 years rather than 5 saves you £5 per year for a £50 lid. That’s about 10p per week, or 1p per commuter journey. Are our heads worth so little?

Ultimately this debate surfaces over and over in different guises. Most PPE *may* often be safe longer than the manufacturer estimates it will be, but why bet your life on that? The advantage being you save a few pounds, the disadvantage is that each accident is different. Standard tests do not replicate real life use. If I were in a near-fatal incident, I’d really not begrudge my daily 1p investment in the contents of my skull for an even marginal increase in survivability.
well Iv been riding & racing mountain bikes over 35yr & have had many a crash with no serious injuries
im sorry but I do feel its a throw away culture that of course the manufactures want you to participate in.

I would be interested to see too what the actual difference in testing a helmet or a harness for that matter that is 5yr or 10yr really is? do the materials really degrade that much?
yes I guess Im just saying "if it looks ok" cos obviously if you helmet has dents all over it or your harness has scuffs all over it shouldnt be used but if its looked after Im not replacing mine because the manufacture tells me to.
Slightly off topic here though as I havent been to a climbing centre for 20 yr but obviously they are within their rights to decide what is used at their facilities as they may be liable.

Take a workplace hard hat for example, has any deaths or serious injury been a result of a defective hard hat cos its too old? or simply someone not wearing one or wearing one incorrectly.

Its amusing that at many site inductions they give you a sticker to say you are inducted then immediately ask you to stick it to your hat... which then voids the manufacture warranty as they say you are not allowed to stick anything to it as the adhesive can effect the structural integrity of the hat, so should we be worried about that?
 

paul

Moderator
Useful info from the BMC, taken from downloadable PDF document at : https://www.thebmc.co.uk/Download.aspx?id=629 (FRP is Fibre-reinforced plastic).

1701272956722.png
 

topcat

Active member
That helmet split might have been very helpful in taking some force off the neck and skull. Impossible to tell, but I can see the logic of not being too bothered if your helmet does that having been seriously impacted by a falling rock or whatever.

Any tests with a new helmet c.f. an old one re forces on the head and neck?? It's got to be less if the helmet gives, surely???
 

Samouse1

Well-known member
The thing with helmets that scares me is that a visual inspection can be false.
An acquaintance of mine had a nasty climbing fall, which involved rescuing. Upon visual inspection, they thought “brilliant that looks fine” and then a short drop onto a hard ground caused it to split in two.
Quite sobering
 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
Firstly, obviously a climbing wall is a private business and has the right to do pretty anything reasonable or indeed unreasonable e.g. they can insist that people only attend in yellow clothing on a Tuesday and blue clothing on a Wednesday if they want. Private individuals are then free to argue this is stupid.

In terms of 'lifetime' as stated by the manufacturer, this is obviously a very reasonable thing for people to use for guidance when they are making 'rules' or 'policies' (either for their own guidance, for use in a climbing wall, for use at work etc.). The lifetime is not a statement from the manufacturer that the item becomes dangerous after the lifetime expires; the lifetime only indicates that the product should not become ineffective, unsafe or non-functional due to aging before that time (and is sold on that basis). If an accident occurred due to aging of an item that hadn't otherwise suffered wear/tear/misuse etc. before that lifetime, I imagine a claim could be made against the manufacturer (or more accurately against the retailer who sold the item). After the lifetime expires, I would imagine any such claim would fail.

It is not illegal, even when 'at work', to exceed the manufacturer's stated lifetime of a product. However, in the event of an accident due to the age of the equipment beyond the manufacturer's stated lifetime, I suspect you would be up a very unpleasant waterway without a paddle.

Here is HSE guidance explicitly recommending what sort of things you would need to do, if you were an outdoor centre, to continue using kayaking helmets after their manufacturer's recommended lifetimes (which at only two or three years should make us grateful we get relatively long lifetimes for climbing/caving gear!):

Basically it means you need to take on the due diligence of ensuring the equipment is still safe to use due to age-related issues.
 

ChrisB

Active member
HSE guidance explicitly recommending what sort of things you would need to do, if you were an outdoor centre, to continue using kayaking helmets after their manufacturer's recommended lifetimes
That 'guidance' is very imprecise compared to most things I've seen from HSE. It's even about shelf life, not use life. Fitness for purpose does depend very much on what the purpose is, which probably varies more widely for kayaking helmets than climbing helmets. I was kayaking on Sunday in a helmet I've had for nearly 20 years - but the context was that I was on the sea, and the coach working with us was wearing a woolly hat.
 
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