Comments regarding access in the Forest of Dean

[darkplaces]

Gosh darn Cap'n I just wish you were the FoDCACCG access officer then we would all benefit from your negotiating prowess and maybe FE would not be so arse twitchingly scared of people suing them. FoDCACCG is the 'cavers representative' to FE so they get the flak, have they worked hard enough for cavers?

Can we force a hostile take over??? and make Cap 'n Chris king of the cavers  :ras:

I will promote reasonable access conditions and the reasons for them. However like I said in my last posts my main worry is the slow creeping locking down of everywhere because of a tiny tiny minority and I intend to make the idea of permits a nasty thing, unworkable, and only to be last as a very very last resort.

Another thing that really pissed me off was wandering into Bixlade stone mine, an open hole in the ground, a fence with a gate around the quarried area, no signs, I didn't know about the access conditions of the FoD. A few days after I had a rather snotty email telling me all about how I wasn't allowed into the FoD mines and this from someone who was breaking into old mines before I was a mine explorer!

 

[badger]

I can not argue for or against c**tplaces difference's with the situation or individual's. But I can only say my experience when in FOD, at very short notice (memory say's about 2 weeks) decided on trip to FOD phone calls to individuals re access, agreed meeting places which meant a bit of driving around on the friday night to different people, plus with a said individual an agreed hiding place for key and survey, we had a very good weekend's caving, personnally I found everyone very helpful in trying to help us get underground, suggesting trips etc. OK it did mean putting ourselves out a bit on the friday night but that was down to us not organising ourselves before hand, and saying sorry because you have not followed the proper procedures, it was OK lets see how we can make this happen, even had the offer of if we applied (which we did not) had got ourselves a leader who would have taken us down otter, to me shows friendlyness, and helpfullness. whether there should or should not be access restristions is a debate that could go on and on, the reality is that there is which gives us a choice accept and grudgingly work within the system or don't except and go underground in caves which access requirements are not needed. And finally yes H & S at times seems beyond comprehension and common sense, but this does seem to go hand in hand with the todays society we live in

 

[Ship-badger]

Can we force a hostile take over??? and make Cap 'n Chris king of the cavers  :ras:

Only if you come to the General Meeting.

Seriously though, I agree with most of what people are saying here. In an ideal world there woyuld be no access procedures; but then all our beautiful stal would be on Ebay! Where access procedurers are in place, they should be clear and easy. FoDCCAG has, I believe, got a fairly workable agreement with FE in the Forest of Dean. Dare I say, a much better agreement than cavers have managed to get with FE in North Wales, where access appears to be getting worse instead of better.

We had a RFDCC Committee Meeting last night, and it was reported that permission had been sought to rebuild a drainage culvert on the surface, which would then hopefully lead to lower water levels underground in Noxon park Iron Mine. The immediate reaction from FE was "fine, no problems, go ahead". So as far as I can see, the agreement works pretty well in our favour.

 

[darkplaces]

Ahh all cool stuff  this discussion thing works.

The North Wales thing hmm.... Maybe we need to parachute dare I say it FoDCACCG or Cap 'n Chris in with lots of bang!

Oh, we got rid of it all

 

[prahja]

I'm going to dip my oar in because I feel reasonably strongly about this:
1) I don't like gates
2) I don't like having to make an effort to get in to caves that I want to go in
3) I don't want landowners to stop me going where I want to go
4) I don't want to permanently lose access to caves that I like (like for example Boreham, etc).
5) I don't want pretty caves smashed up ("not the pretty things", etc)

So, how to resolve this ?

If a landowner wants an access arrangement then as cavers we should aim for what we can get away with and have the least restrictive access hassles we can get away with.
In the Forest, many caves and mines are ungated because the landowner is happy with that.
Many caves and mines are gated and access in controlled, because that is what the landowner wants.
We have access to *every* cave and mine.
None are vandalised (ish)
Access is very easy - write/email/phone/pop in to someone's house. All of the addresses for named key holders are published and widely disseminated.
Key holders (as has already been said) are very happy to arrange meeting places or make other arrangements to make it easy for visitors.
Surveys are widely available (some for free e.g. Miss Grace's Lane).
Forest cavers are very welcoming to visitors.
The landowners are very happy with cavers - look at Wet Sink/Slaughter. The only landowner I can think of who is close to being as accomodating is Brian up at the Lamb and Fox (over Draenen).

Seriously - I think the Forest is a pretty good compromise of open access vs restrictions in order to preserve access for cavers.

Well done to all the people on the FoDCAG team because it is a thankless job that I would never in a million years be arsed to do...

Lastly - please lets have less personal abuse on this forum - it's not big and it's not clever.

Cheers...

 

[damian]

Very sound words, prahja. I echo what you say completely.

 

[twiglet]

Rob is fit enough for backpacking in Scotland and the occasional easy cave but does have a slight limp,otherwise he made a full recovery thanks. By the way,3 of us stayed at OCC cottage last year and found it very cozy.....we even got a trip into owl hole!