Conservation and consequences of CRoW access applied to caving.

[Jenny P]

Worth noting that in the 1970's DCA administered access to the Clayton Adit of Ecton Copper Mines and, because of the proximity of a caravan site with children, the owner insisted that there must be a locked gate on the adit.  The gate was put on and next to it a polite notice which explained that the mine was kept locked because of danger to children and the key was available, free of charge, from the following address ...

I had to maintain a set of 8 keys because the owner wanted one, the local police station wanted one and one was kept at the cave rescue store.  Each time the lock was cut off, the local PC called me at work and told me and  I immediately went and bought another lock and 8 keys, sent the 3 out to the other holders and kept the 5 for loan.  We deliberately went for cheap brass padlocks, which we knew were easy to break off, because we knew it would happen again, and again, ...

Then the clever b*****s went and cut a hole in the 3/8 steel plate door and a chunk out of the frame using  oxy-acetylene cutters so that it was no longer possible to lock the gate.

Result: the owner apologised to DCA and said he could no longer risk it and walled up the entrance - so no access for anyone via the easy route ever again.

Ever heard of cutting off your nose to spite your face?

 

[Jenny P]

Bearing in mind all the recent discussions on UKcaving, at the BCA AGM on 16 June and as an Direct Individual Member of BCA, I put forward a proposal re. access to caves on land covered by CRoW Legislation in England:

"That BCA investigates the position with regard to access to caves on CRoW land in England and reports back to BCA Council as soon as possible."

In the discussion document making the proposal I set out some points which I felt needed to be investigated in the different regions and ended by saying:

"Note that I would suggest also that, if the proposal is passed, the best way to get things going would be to set up an informal working party composed of representatives from the English Regional Councils, cave scientists and other interested bodies to do the fact-finding and start the discussions, initially via a closed list on the internet.  This will require someone to act as Convenor in the first instance and, in the absence of other offers, I would be willing to do this myself."

After discussion my proposal was accepted by BCA and I was appointed convenor of this informal working group with the request that I report back on progress in the first instance to the October Council meeting of BCA.  (Note that the text of the discussion document will be on the BCA website in due course with the Minutes of the meeting.)  I have already spoken to a few people involved in conservation and access arrangements and intend to make a start on collecting information shortly.  Note that the investigation is limited to the situation in England precisely because things are different in Scotland and Wales.

If anyone is interested in helping I would be grateful if you could PM me please.

Thanks,
Jenny P

 

[peterk]

Sorry if I've missed this but other than the "appropriate Countryside Body" what differences exist in the CROW legislation between Wales and England?

 

[zomjon]

Well done Jenny, for not only being ready to plough through all those long and at times torturous threads to do with this issue, but then taking really positive steps to look into issues.

 

[Stu]

Well done Jenny. A pm will be forthcoming when I get back from work.

 

[Bob Mehew]

Sorry if I've missed this but other than the "appropriate Countryside Body" what differences exist in the CROW legislation between Wales and England?

The argument went that CROW is "enforced" in Wales by a different body (Countryside Council for Wales as was, now Natural Resources Wales) who apparently has a slightly different view to the body in England (Natural England).  The concerns being expressed arose around english caves so the focus should be on them.