Conservation via photography
- Thread starter Kenilworth
- Start date
Leclused - Sure I will. I put it away for a bit, some friends told me I was too nice, another said I sound too emotional and will lose people because of that. So it will be a WIP for a few weeks, I expect. As I need to write bits and then revise (which I have a friend helping me do, to help with the emotionally-charged language I tend to result to when writing on the topic for longer than 10 minutes, ha). I really do want it in accessible language that even those who did the damage, or have done other damage maybe they didn't perceive as such at the time, can receive and integrate into how they cave and view conservation. That conservation is more than just not breaking formations, and not spraypainting, and not treating open air pits and sinkholes as trash dumps. It's the little things too, because the little things add up.
Kenilworth
New member
Amy, after taking Droid?s wise advice, I realize that I probably could have worded things more carefully and kindly. I certainly didn?t mean to imply any intentional negligence on your part, and I realize that you actively attempted to protect your discovery from damage.
However, it seems that the conservation measures that you took may not have been adequate in this case, and that caving culture and your own desire for recognition might have influenced you to make decisions that doomed the fragile features whose loss you are now mourning. This example relates both to this thread and to some of the points made in the locked ?stagnation? thread.
I might as well ask point-blank if you at any point seriously considered leaving the cave unreported. My guess, based on your posts here and your ?caving career? so far, would be that you did not. I am not saying that you should necessarily have kept the cave a secret. However, if you have paid attention, which I believe you have, you should have realized that to publicize your discovery would automatically be to compromise its aesthetic integrity. And you should have realized that flagging tape would accomplish nothing. I have never seen flagging used to good effect in a US cave. It is indeed garbage.
It may well be that this cave was not remarkable enough to warrant secrecy as a conservation measure. It may be that you could best honor its features by a thorough photographic documentation, which, hopefully, you have done. My point is that NSS conservation standards and our inherent egotism do not often give proper consideration to even the possibility of secrecy. Instead, we fall back automatically on token measures such as taping, and then set about lusting after glory on the internet and in magazine articles. I have fallen into this trap myself, and it was caving in TAG that introduced some desperately-needed humility into my outlook on cave discovery.
There are more than ten-thousand known caves within a half-day?s drive of your home. If adequately motivated, you could easily be discovering new caves or passages every single week for the rest of your life. I have never failed to visit TAG without discovering a virgin or undocumented cave. The vast number of caves in your part of the country forced me to realize that in finding new ones I was not doing anything noteworthy or special. This freed me to approach discovery with an eye toward the singularity of each cave, and with a heart inclined toward doing what was best for each one. So while I believe strongly in the value of documentation, and while I am a TCS member and have added new caves to their files, I have also kept my ?best? Tennessee discoveries quiet. Some are outstanding visually or archeologically, but the recreational and chest-beating slant of TCS and caving culture do not allow me to release them into the influence of Caving. I know what will happen. While these caves are in a sort of limbo as far as other humans are concerned, they are at least not lost.
My suggestion (and it is only that) is that an article dealing with the damage in Understein Cave would be most valuable if it explored honestly the responsibilities of the discoverer to the virgin cave. There are enough post-mortem laments already. Our national and grotto publications are saturated with them. They are a waste of time. As I?m sure you perceive, our caving culture will not be changed by internal pleadings. It is a direct extension of American culture, which is far beyond the influence of conservationists. If we want to protect things, we will need to think beyond the canon of caving, and devise a language by which we might be truly useful to one another and our places.
However, it seems that the conservation measures that you took may not have been adequate in this case, and that caving culture and your own desire for recognition might have influenced you to make decisions that doomed the fragile features whose loss you are now mourning. This example relates both to this thread and to some of the points made in the locked ?stagnation? thread.
I might as well ask point-blank if you at any point seriously considered leaving the cave unreported. My guess, based on your posts here and your ?caving career? so far, would be that you did not. I am not saying that you should necessarily have kept the cave a secret. However, if you have paid attention, which I believe you have, you should have realized that to publicize your discovery would automatically be to compromise its aesthetic integrity. And you should have realized that flagging tape would accomplish nothing. I have never seen flagging used to good effect in a US cave. It is indeed garbage.
It may well be that this cave was not remarkable enough to warrant secrecy as a conservation measure. It may be that you could best honor its features by a thorough photographic documentation, which, hopefully, you have done. My point is that NSS conservation standards and our inherent egotism do not often give proper consideration to even the possibility of secrecy. Instead, we fall back automatically on token measures such as taping, and then set about lusting after glory on the internet and in magazine articles. I have fallen into this trap myself, and it was caving in TAG that introduced some desperately-needed humility into my outlook on cave discovery.
There are more than ten-thousand known caves within a half-day?s drive of your home. If adequately motivated, you could easily be discovering new caves or passages every single week for the rest of your life. I have never failed to visit TAG without discovering a virgin or undocumented cave. The vast number of caves in your part of the country forced me to realize that in finding new ones I was not doing anything noteworthy or special. This freed me to approach discovery with an eye toward the singularity of each cave, and with a heart inclined toward doing what was best for each one. So while I believe strongly in the value of documentation, and while I am a TCS member and have added new caves to their files, I have also kept my ?best? Tennessee discoveries quiet. Some are outstanding visually or archeologically, but the recreational and chest-beating slant of TCS and caving culture do not allow me to release them into the influence of Caving. I know what will happen. While these caves are in a sort of limbo as far as other humans are concerned, they are at least not lost.
My suggestion (and it is only that) is that an article dealing with the damage in Understein Cave would be most valuable if it explored honestly the responsibilities of the discoverer to the virgin cave. There are enough post-mortem laments already. Our national and grotto publications are saturated with them. They are a waste of time. As I?m sure you perceive, our caving culture will not be changed by internal pleadings. It is a direct extension of American culture, which is far beyond the influence of conservationists. If we want to protect things, we will need to think beyond the canon of caving, and devise a language by which we might be truly useful to one another and our places.
Yup. Totally my fault that I expected better of people. 
Totally my fault for saving a mountain from a construction project that would have destroyed the cave totally without anyone ever seeing it, ever.
I dont believe in hiding discovery. There is no point in exploration then. You say it is egotistic to publicize new cave finds. I say its egotistical to think the only discoverer and maybe their closest friends are the only one worthy of visiting.
Totally my fault for saving a mountain from a construction project that would have destroyed the cave totally without anyone ever seeing it, ever.
I dont believe in hiding discovery. There is no point in exploration then. You say it is egotistic to publicize new cave finds. I say its egotistical to think the only discoverer and maybe their closest friends are the only one worthy of visiting.
Kenilworth
New member
With respect, yes. You should have known better by now.
I have never thought or said this. I often doubt my own worthiness to visit some places. However, since there are many disrespectful cavers, there must be sacrifices. Sometimes the cave is sacrificed, sometimes the caving. It is not self-centered to forgo publicity for the sake of protecting something of value. Quite the opposite.
I disagree strongly. Caving culture has reduced exploration and discovery to a sort of social currency, but it is much more than that.
Kenilworth said:[
I have never thought or said this. I often doubt my own worthiness to visit some places. However, since there are many disrespectful cavers, there must be sacrifices. Sometimes the cave is sacrificed, sometimes the caving. It is not self-centered to forgo publicity for the sake of protecting something of value. Quite the opposite.
Please do consider such, ie. within the area of this forum.
