could Goatchurch and Sidcot connect?

[cap n chris]

This question is the wrong way around IMO. Once surveys have been compared and the shortest distance between two known points in the two different caves has been established, then you have located your digging points (presuming you're still planning on linking the two systems). Put simply, the digging sites are defined as the points closest to one another - assuming that they are both in boulder chokes....

 

[Andy Sparrow]

I don't think you need a survey to find a possible connection dig.  If you stand with your back to the Coal Chute you are looking down a deep 45 degree bedding.  This bedding extends beneath you for 10+ metres and has a number of small continuations heading off to your left (west) towards Sidcot.  I am pretty sure that Sidcot and Goatchurch are part of the same system formed along that same bedding plane.  If you descend the entrance passage of Sidcot you arrive at a junction where turning right leads east, along the bedding towards Goatchurch.  This terminates at a boulder choke (which was the site of my first ever cave dig in 1971).  You don't need a survey to tell you that these are the closest points.  I would send somebody into both caves and try banging the wall (not on stal!) with a hammer to see if there is any aural connection.  Obviously any indication of a draft would be significant. 

So how far apart are the caves?  I can only make an informed guess.  Certainly Goatchurch has gained enough depth at this point to be below the valley floor.  The horizontal distance I would estimate to be maybe only 10 metres.  But, as has been suggested, the reason for the choke is probably connected with the proximity to the valley floor and may be because a large volume of material has entered the cave from a breach in the bedding plane.  I suspect they connect but is it a feasible dig?  Probably not - but worth a scratch at - and few hammer tapping experiments.

Now let me suggest another possible dig that is not obvious but that could have genuinely huge potential.  If Sidcot and Goatchurch are the same cave system then Sidcot represents the lowest level of the westwards continuation of Goatchurch.  The large galleries associated with the two entrances to GC emerge into open air where the cave system has been denuded away by the down-cutting of the valley.  It is logical to assume they continue on the opposite side of the valley.  This being the case the hypothetical cave could be entered from two points - either by a currently concealed (buried) entrance in the valley side above Sidcot or by upward extension of the Sidcot system.  It has been reported on more than one occasion that the chimney in Sidcot Boulder Chamber was found drafting very powerfully - an 'Aggie' draft according to one person who reported this observavation to CSCC.  I would suggest that such a draft would be associated with a change in air pressure that caused a very large vessel to equalise.  This is why the draft is not constant - in fact it does not blow at all under normal conditions.  The very large vessel would be the continuation of Goatchurch - a major unsuspected cave system.  The problem is that the chimney needs banging or capping.  It is a dig that needs a properly skilled team - and obviously requires permission.

 

[andymorgan]

In the book "The Caving Diaries of Henry Savory", he refers to looking at a hole opposite Goatchurch. A friend and I had a poke around on the hillside looking for something, with no luck. However I recently saw an article in the Belfry Bullitin on lost caves by David Irwin suggesting this may have been what is now Sidcot Swallet. However it would be nice if the opposite bank to Goatchurch was given a thorough search if allowed.

 

[Andy Sparrow]

In the book "The Caving Diaries of Henry Savory", he refers to looking at a hole opposite Goatchurch. A friend and I had a poke around on the hillside looking for something, with no luck. However I recently saw an article in the Belfry Bullitin on lost caves by David Irwin suggesting this may have been what is now Sidcot Swallet. However it would be nice if the opposite bank to Goatchurch was given a thorough search if allowed.

The search can be quite specific as the entrance will almost certainly be on the same bedding as Sidcot/Goatchurch.  There may be enough limestone exposures to pinpoint this at several points.

 

[Razzerip1]

Thanks Andy

That was the answer i was looking for 

 

[stealth]

being a non scientific person, could you tell me what an 'Aggie' draft is. 

The problem is that the chimney needs banging or capping.  It is a dig that needs a properly skilled team

Thats not me and my lot then


We were down GC today ( Saturday) and down that by that 45 degree bedding opposite the coal shute were some interesting bits, but as there were a lot of bats hanging on the wall we decided to retire out from that part, so didn't get a good look. Maybe next time were up that way we might.

 

[Les W]

being a non scientific person, could you tell me what an 'Aggie' draft is. 

This is a draught of the magnitude of the one from Agen Allwed, a large cave system in South Wales.

We were down GC today ( Saturday) and down that by that 45 degree bedding opposite the coal shute were some interesting bits, but as there were a lot of bats hanging on the wall we decided to retire out from that part, so didn't get a good look.

BATS, in Goatchurch, the busiest cave in Burrington. Might have to suggest a closed season. 

seriously though, well done for leaving them alone 
Bats in Goatchurch just prove how wrong the bat botherers are to close caves during the "hibernation season" 

 

[stealth]

yeh we counted 5 down on that bedding in dining chamber,  there were another 4 in the main entrance another 2 that we saw in the top end of the maze and as we had been there nearly all day we left about 4 ish they were becoming active, so not started to hibernate yet.

 

[cap n chris]

Bats don't hibernate, as such; IIRC they go into a state of torpor from which they can be disturbed, or will become active to feed (if conditions allow, i.e. there are insects available) and to drink (more likely) on a regular basis. Bats do not hibernate in the same way as, say, bears. Seeing bats flying around at this time of year either means that the weather hasn't closed in enough for them to remain sheltered or something is perhaps disturbing them. By far the best thing to do if you see bats is to keep quiet, move cautiously and don't hang around (pun intended!).

 

[Hughie]

I hope laser surveying equipment doesn't disturb the bats (torporing or otherwise!).

 

[graham]

I hope laser surveying equipment doesn't disturb the bats (torporing or otherwise!).

Nope, though light sabres would.

 

[cap n chris]

I hope laser surveying equipment doesn't disturb the bats (torporing or otherwise!).

Apparently, if the laser beam shines on a bat they go up in a puff of flame as their fur is highly inflammable and the laser is muchos powerful, senor.

 

[Hughie]

I hope laser surveying equipment doesn't disturb the bats (torporing or otherwise!).

Apparently, if the laser beam shines on a bat they go up in a puff of flame as their fur is highly inflammable and the laser is muchos powerful, senor.

I wonder if there's a cow size version?  :-\

 

[andymorgan]

I've always seen bats in Goatchurch, even in the very busy bits. They seem quite happy as we quickly pass. I wish I could hibernate!

 

[ditzy 24//7]

went up to goatchurch yesterday and noticed about six bats mainly in the dining chamber and in the main entrance and as we left i looked back into the cave and i could see a bat flying around. 

 

[tony from suffolk]

Bats don't hibernate, as such; IIRC they go into a state of torpor from which they can be disturbed, or will become active to feed and to drink (more likely) on a regular basis. 

As I become older, I feel I have much in common with the Bat.

 

[Hatstand]

So whats the dig already in Goatchurch trying to achieve then???

 

[stealth]

what dig is that then? went on saturday and no sign of a dig

 

[whitelackington]

Are Mister Binding & The U.B.S.S. also going to be surveying Sidcot in preparation for a connection?

 

[graham]

Are Mister Binding & The U.B.S.S. also going to be surveying Sidcot in preparation for a connection?

Secret.  :tease: