Cox's Cave vandalism

[Andy Sparrow]

Some food for thought.  Here is a photograph of a famous group of formations in Cox's Cave Cheddar. 

To the left is the Speaker's Staff, in the centre The Speaker's Mace, and on the right an unnamed stalactite and stalagmite.  When I worked at Cheddar Caves (1984-1987) all the formations were intact.  At that time guided tours had just been replaced with tape loop commentaries allowing the public to wander through the cave at their own speed.  In order to protect the formations an automatic alarm was fitted which sounded a klaxon should anyone attempt to touch these formations.    There was also a member of the guiding staff present in the cave during this period.  Since my departure, and as the years have passed, these protective measures have gradually disappeared.  The alarm and warning notice were removed and it  gradually became less common for staff to be present in the cave.

This is the situation today.  The Speaker's Staff has gone (persons unknown about 10 years ago).  The tip of the stalactite was obviously an earlier casualty as it is missing in both photographs.  It's sad and it's depressing. 

 

[graham]

It is indeed sad and depressing; it's what happens when you allow people unfettered access to caves.

And yet I am given to understand that Mr Sparrow is in favour of unfettered access to caves. 

 

[Ed W]

Graham, not sure that Cox's is a good example of "unfettered" access.  It is securely gated, and access limited to those who are gullible enough prepared to pay the substantial access fee.  The formations were protected, just not well enough to keep some vandalistic thieving git from acquiring a trophy.  I have been caving long enough to know that there is a difficult balance between access and conservation, I don't think either end of the absolutist argument have much merit.  I too have seen beautiful caves trashed by vandals/idiots/inexperienced cavers, I have also been told by a zealot conservationist that "no one should enter a cave just for fun".

I would also pose the question that how many of our cavers access restrictions would actually prevent someone who really wanted to from damaging a cave?  For example, what checks are made on people before picking up a Charterhouse permit and key for parties going down GB?  Even for those caves with leader systems (I have been a "leader" for various caves for many years), the leader cannot police the party absolutely.  I strongly suspect that in many of those wild caves with access restrictions, that it is the fact that the visitors are cavers that preserves them more than the bits of paper required to descend them.

 

[graham]

Ed

A reasoned post and I agree with much of it, though you will not be surprised to learn that I don't agree with all of it.

The most important point of disagreement concerns your contention that caves are looked after by cavers. Less than a month ago I was discussing a particular conservation initiative only to have one young caver respond "Can't you just accept that that piece of passage is going to be trashed?"

I agree that our access limitations are by no means perfect, but there is absolutely no doubt that caves with restrictions have fared better over time those without.

 

[droid]

Less than a month ago I was discussing a particular conservation initiative only to have one young caver respond "Can't you just accept that that piece of passage is going to be trashed?"

Wasn't a caver that thinks ripping out gates is fine, was it? :

 

[graham]

Less than a month ago I was discussing a particular conservation initiative only to have one young caver respond "Can't you just accept that that piece of passage is going to be trashed?"

Wasn't a caver that thinks ripping out gates is fine, was it? :

No, leastways I don't think so. Just one that thinks that damage is inevitable.

I don't think it is.

 

[Elaine]

Damage is certainly reducable.

 

[graham]

I strongly suspect that in many of those wild caves with access restrictions, that it is the fact that the visitors are cavers that preserves them more than the bits of paper required to descend them.

Ed, I have been reminded that in the 1980s,  Ogof Capel suffered damage when it was only accessible by cave divers.

 

[mikem]

It doesn't seem to matter who you limit access to, if there are some controls then formations survive better.

\mike

 

[Alex]

Give it another 200 years and a new one will be there instead look at the size of the stal in the roof where the speaker staff used to be compared to the first picture. Its amazing that, that grew that much in just 10 years!

I have no comment on conservation issues I don't want to get into that argument. I just thought I would point that out as a matter of interest. Though it could be just a matter of photo perspective.

 

[langcliffe]

Give it another 200 years and a new one will be there instead look at the size of the stal in the roof where the speaker staff used to be compared to the first picture. Its amazing that, that grew that much in just 10 years!

Take another look - the stalactite in question is in both photographs - it's just that the lighting makes it stand out more in the second.  If stals did grow that quickly, the caves would be inaccessible after a few thousand years!

 

[whitelackington]

The railway tunnel on the Strawberry Line, up track from Cheddar is festooned with stal
and is probably only 160 years old.