Cwmystwyth Mines Access Poll

[james]

The only solution I can see is for me to add my own "gate".  Possibly a length of tubing which can be pushed back to allow access.  Will be there tomorrow at 10.00 am if any wants to join me.

 

[hyweldavies]

c**tplaces - I don't know you either.

And as I don't know you I am not prepared to make a judgement statement about you - which you seem to be happy to do about me. Please keep your personal observations to yourself. They have no place on a friendly forum such as this.

If 'condescending' in your eyes means not agreeing with the illegal actions that some people would condone, then, yes I am happy to be 'condescending'.

I consider criminal damage, and breaking and entering to be simple criminal acts, that should not be condoned by ANY law-abiding caver. Period.

Somethings are legal but not moral, whilst other actions can be perfectly moral but not legal. What about "victimless" crimes ? What about the mass trespass on kinder scout ? Or the Tolpuddle Martyrs. Are they too to be condemmed ? Are only criminal acts "wrong" in your eyes? Trespass is not of itself illegal, though those trespassed against can seek legal redress - is trespass "wrong" in your book too ? Sneaking (as opposed to breaking in) is the same as taking a short cut across someone's field isn't it ?

You can deabete the rights or wrongs of whatever or not was or wasn't done at Cwmystwyth, but to condemn out of hand any and every law breaking, and even more so, civil trespass without discrimination is an extreme position to take. Is that really your position.


Hywel

 

[zomjon]

I have a few misgivings having just read this post. It seems to me that the little disagreement between Darkplaces and Peter was quite a long time back. Why bring it back up?

 

[graham]

The Kinder Scout Trespass was a highly public protest and the men concerned were prepared to go to jail. I wonder if the same could be said about the Cymystwyth gate vandals?  :-\

Zomjon, in the light of the cave vandalism that we are seeing on Mendip, this may be a valid time to discuss such matters again.

 

[NigR]

.... in the light of the cave vandalism that we are seeing on Mendip, this may be a valid time to discuss such matters again.

Don't think you can compare the two and it is stupid to attempt to do so.

You regard those who have removed the gates at Cwmystwyth as vandals, others (myself included) would regard them as heroes.

Pretty sure everyone (apart from those who did it) considers those responsible for the cave vandalism on Mendip to be mindless morons.

 

[graham]

.... in the light of the cave vandalism that we are seeing on Mendip, this may be a valid time to discuss such matters again.

You regard those who have removed the gates at Cwmystwyth as vandals, others (myself included) would regard them as heroes.

If I knew who they were and could discuss their motives with them ...

 

[Peter Burgess]

The fact that damage to property is a criminal act, to me is less important than the fact that it just shows pure lack of respect for someone else's property and their wishes concerning other people's access to it.