Daft questions about Giant's Hole

Cantclimbtom

Cantclimbtom

Well-known member
Hi all, it occured to me everyone and their dog have wandered about Giant's Hole... except for me!

There's a 50:50 chance I'll be in the area Sunday morning so I'm planning to put some Wellies and whatnot in the back of the car, including a bit of rope for Garlands.

I've been to DCA site, read the Hitch 'n Hike mini guides, rigging topo, survey, etc but I still have daft questions.

Firstly- Round trip, how long? Of course you can't answer it for me personally, but:
For an average/competent caver, who wasn't held up by other groups and knew where they were going (obviously that doesn't describe me, but it's a benchmark comparison), how long would a quick round trip take? Crabwalk to eating house and back via giant's windpipe?

Secondly- With reference to the guides and survey can you clarify the warning please "...St. Valentine's Sump rapidly fills, and is difficult to bale from the other side. Baling outlet frequently blocked now..." Make sure Far Curtain is accessible before abseiling Filthy Five for a round trip via Geology Pot!

Thirdly- dampness? Again please use some fictitious "average" person, is this an over suit under suit kind of trip or is it damper than that?

Thanks!
 
Giants round trip via the Eating House, Giants Wind Pipe doesn't involve Valentine's sump and the Filthy Five. That's a different round trip, but one that hasn't been doable for years, as it is not possible to drain Valentines at the moment. Take a survey and description with you. Some route finding on the high level route isn't immediately obvious. Maybe three hours to do, but time can vary enormously.
Oversuit/undersuit is fine, but you will get a bit damp. In wet conditions the Windpipe can sump. Heed the warning sign about not trying to free dive it if it is and return via the Crabwalk.
 
The Giants Hole round trip is an excellent and varied trip, which I'd say at a modest pace, with occasional routefinding/rest stops, should take around three to four hours (longer if you get stuck behind others at Garland's Pot or if you are particularly slow).

I'm sure some fast cavers could knock it out in considerably less.

There is a bit of everything, walking, sideways walking, crawling, squeezing, climbs, wet crawls, traverses. You get a great feeling of journey.

A few sections of the crabwalk are a little pinchy and broader cavers may need to crawl at the water level (where the passage is wider) to get through which can deliver a bit of a wetting (but you'll get soaked later anyway). The Giants Windpipe is an ear-in-water wet crawl which looks far worse than it is, but Wellyjen is right to warn that this can become hazardous in wetter conditions (as can the Crabwalk).

I'd agree, just normal undersuit/oversuit is absolutely fine. An additional thermal if you get cold easily.

Navigationally, fairly straightforward but there are a few key junctions to get right and which are easily missed; I'm sure you've done your research but if you need a very brief navigational summary of the major junctions, PM me and I'm happy to help.

The descent back down to the Crabwalk near the end of the trip is a sketchy chimney climb; I have always free-climbed this using the 'expand, jam and slide' technique, but many people prefer to belay (there is a metal ring above), so you'd need an additional rope for that.

Finally, although it's been a while since I was there, Giants always used to get very busy, particularly at this time of year with freshers trips. This can result in parking issues or queues at Garlands Pot. I'm not sure whether this is still the case (or whether the ever-increasing trespass fee has put most people off), but as long as you're there pre-9:30am while most people are still nursing their hangover, I suspect you will be fine.

Have a great trip!
 
The round trip is amazing. My favourite sporting trip in the Peak District.
If you decide to down climb back into the stream way after the windpipe rather than abseil via a pull-through, you can ditch your SRT kit near chert hall and travel light.
If I'm feeling quick and am not with anyone you can do it between one and two hours.

Valentine's Sump still needs some work at the moment so I'd stay far away from there.
Far curtain may certainly not be passable at present as easy canal will have rather high water levels based on the recent rainfall.

Enjoy an amazing trip!
 
After you exit the Giant's Windpipe, turn right as straight on is a dead end... Cavematt's description of the route back down to the stream in The Crabwalk from the high-level traverse is one way, but if you continue traversing, you end up a lot nearer the stream and have only a short climb to the bottom and you will be nearer Garlands Pot too.
 
It is possible to be back at garlands in under an hour via crab walk and back thru windpipe, and yes 3-4 hours with novices.
 
A good trip, but there are places you could go wrong.
Down to Garlands, and then the Crabwalk is straightforward enough, although it does go on a bit.
Best to follow the water to the 2nd stream sump then return for 15 metres or so and take the passage on the left.
After a short distance a short hands and knees crawl through a shower brings you to the climb to the upper series. A rope above to your right.
Easy to miss!
Then a short crawl to the bottom of Maggin's rift.
The way on is a passage on the right a short distance up the rift - not the first passage. It's well travelled.
Straightforward thereafter, via a climb which usually has a fixed rope but is easy enough unless very wet, to Ghost Rift and the Windpipe.
As stated, turn right immediately after the very wet bit.
Nice passage to where you break out into the top of the Crabwalk and see the chain.
I always prefer to go on a few minutes further, straddling the drop, to a jug handle in the rock at floor level and a much easier friction slide down (or a pulldown using that jug).
Back up the Crabwalk to Garlands.
 
Wow, thanks everyone.

I'm very happy traversing and climbing down but I might have my son who is not very confident (unknown currently if this is a solo or if the two of us) If I'm with him we'll probably need the pull-through. The guide mentions the abseil but doesn't give any suggested rope length, what length is needed please?
 
I have never used the chain pull through, but my 12 year old copy of the CCPC guide says 40m.
Depending how old/confident your son is you can use the rope to lifeline him up the short rope climb to the upper series - the in situ rope is attached to glue ins - a fall from that could be very serious.
Then on the climb on NE Swallet. There are spits at the top IIRC.

I did forget to mention the obvious junction between that climb and Ghost Rift. You go right and then pass the Letter Box on your left.
 
anticrawling said:
I know that Nottingham Uni are running freshers trips to Giants this Sunday so beware of the potential busy-ness that entails.
Click to expand...
Freshers? They'll be too busy still vomiting the previous night's snakebite and black or nursing their heads to be there much before 11:00 if they're anything like I was at that age?
I'm hoping to get in/out early, but thanks for the warning
 
paul said:
The pull through down to The Crabwalk is shown on CCPC's rigging guide: https://www.ccpc.org.uk/rigging-guide/giants-print.pdf (17m high needing 40m rope)
Click to expand...
Thank you, I'd only read the DCA site guides, this is a great source of info!
What's the minimal rope needed? Abseil down garlands and pull through (if doing that) down to crabwalk

Are those other pitches optional, apologies this is probably all perfectly obvious *after* you're familiar with Giant's
 
For the Round Trip via Giant's Windpipe etc. you only need to rig Garlands, and if you need to, the pull through back down to the Crab Walk. The other pitches are either before Garlands Pot from Base Camp Chamber (which you can ignore) or beyond the Eating House where you will go a different route to reach Maggin's Rift as opposed to the Bad Step Traverse, Geology Pot, etc. There is a short handline rigged to get up the little climbs towards Maggins Rift after a small climb to a platform and a couple of easy climbs already rigged with knotted handlines on the way to the traverse over the Crab Walk. If you decide not to descend at the pull-through, then continue the easy traversing until you reach a constriction, pop through an eyehole and climb up a little and then continue the traverse. When you reach a couple of what looks like the top of two rock columns with flat tops, you can drop down by wedging yourself in and using footholds to get down to the Crab Walk. Alternatively continue the traverse for a short stretch and you again can drop down to the bottom of the Crab Walk via an easier and much shorter climb down nearer to Garlands Pot.

TLDR; you only need to rig Garlands and the optional pull through back down to the Crab Walk.
 
Garlands must be left rigged for the return. All other ropes for the standard round are optional. A jammer and footloop for the climb up to Magins Rift from Eating House is useful
 
You only need the Garlands 15m rope plus krabs and the 40m one for the pull through back into the Crabwalk (which can also be used as a lifeline for the 2 climbs with fixed ropes).
I think many experienced people don't bother with that second (40m) rope at all and slide back down.
You can't pull down on Garlands! I did once see someone free climb out on the LHS (looking upstream) but it looked a bit sketchy to me!

All the other ropes shown on that CCPC topo that Paul showed are either optional asides on the (dead straightforward) walking route from the entrance to Garlands or features beyond the Round Trip which you won't even get to (unless you miss seeing that fixed rope up to the upper series, of course!).
 
paul said:
If you decide not to descend at the pull-through, then continue the easy traversing until you reach a constriction, pop through an eyehole and climb up a little and then continue the traverse. When you reach a couple of what looks like the top of two rock columns with flat tops, you can drop down by wedging yourself in and using footholds to get down to the Crab Walk. Alternatively continue the traverse for a short stretch and you again can drop down to the bottom of the Crab Walk via an easier and much shorter climb down nearer to Garlands Pot.
Click to expand...
Hmm... Not carrying 40m of rope and harness etc would make a more enjoyable trip, especially given crawls and dampness to drag the bag through. If it was just me from your description a rope sounds unnecessary, but my son isn't that confident on rock, so if it's solo I'll not bother, if he's in tow I'll take a rope. Thanks for all the advice
 
The Crewe rigging guide has three sheets of Giants topos. The first page covers the main route to East Canal, via Garland's Pot, the Crabwalk and Geology Pot. The second and third pages cover various alternatives and optional pitches in to interesting and not so interesting places.
 
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