Discussion Re: FSUE Conservation initiative

[Aubrey]

Is this the thin end of the wedge? - Will the EU eventually control what we do underground?

 

[Peter Burgess]

Let's hope so as, judging from the regular reports of vandalism that appear here, some cavers seem incapable of controlling their own behaviour when it comes to conservation issues.

 

[whitelackington]

One of the reasons The European Union has become uneconomic with other parts of our world
is the absolutely ludicrous levels of new rules.
Let them stick them up their arses 

 

[Andy Sparrow]

Is this the thin end of the wedge? - Will the EU eventually control what we do underground?

One of the reasons The European Union has become uneconomic with other parts of our world
is the absolutely ludicrous levels of new rules.
Let them stick them up their arses 

I'm sorry?  Have we actually been reading the same document?  Or are these reactions just a typical British response to any proposal, no matter how constructive, that has the word Europe in it?

 

[Peter Burgess]

Please don't tell me Whitelackington is "typically British" 

 

[Peter Burgess]

Message from Christian Grebe:

Dear caving friends,

The European Speleological Federation (FSUE) and its European Cave Protection Commission (ECPC) is very pleased to announce the launching of the Call for the EuroSpeleo Protection Label available here:
http://fsue.org/commission/protection/eurospeleo-protection-label-ni02.rtf
(deadline is 10th of June 2008 for applications).

During Vercors 2008 one unique qualitative cave protection project form all over Europe will be awarded for the first time with this European award.

The aim of the EuroSpeleo Protection Label is to support the active cave protection in the speleo clubs,  commitees, national commissions, etc, all over Europe and to share this knowledge European wide.

We as cavers are combined by our  passion for the underground and by the natural wish to preserve and protect what we discover during our speleological explorations. For this reason many cavers and speleological structures  are inventing specific solutions, which can be shared with the whole European speleological community, in order to adapt these cave protection solutions in other European countries.

The FSUE / ECPC would like to award qualitative projects which can help to find better solutions for cave protection among the speleological community. And this award should be also an financial support to continue this important work that you carry out in your country, because we all need to preserve the speleological heritage for the next generations.
Best speleological wishes,

Christiane Grebe
Head of Commission
European Cave Protection Commission
F?d?ration Sp?l?ologique de l'Union Europ?enne (FSUE)
e-mail: protection@eurospeleo.org

In case you missed it, WL, this post tells you that the idea is to encourage local initiatives, not impose central ones.

 

[whitelackington]

I'm sorry, until we get our promised referendum on The E.U.
I start choking at any impositions coming out of Europe.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Show me the imposition being proposed and I might start taking note of what you say.

 

[darkplaces]

HUH Whats all this international crap about caves, you know as soon as some big unelected burocraps get involved its all down hill.

The best way of looking after places is by including people not excluding and keeping it local.

Sounds like more gates to me as that seams to be the DEFAULT DUMB answer to everything without any creative thought process.

 

[Peter Burgess]

The description of the initiative (if you have bothered to read it) tells you that the idea IS to include people. They want local people to do what they think is appropriate for their circumstances and fund the work. Why don't you guys get your heads out of your arses and think instead of mouthing off your prejudices?

 

[Peter Burgess]

Taking a more general view, when people complain about the EU, they often complain about how much money is paid by the UK into the EU coffers. Then, when some of it is offered back for worthwhile projects such as protecting caves for future generations, they get told to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. No wonder other europeans think the British are mad.

 

[whitelackington]

Anthony Blair promised The U.K.
a referendum on The New Constitution ( we don't have a U.K. Constitution, not thought to have been necessary,
we also did quite well without political correctness or human rights)
Our new bloke Mister Brown   says we don't need one.
If there was an election tomorrow, he would loose by the most massive amount ever.
He is so out of touch with ordinary people.
Until we get (like the Irish) our promised say,
I do not want to hear another single rule from Europe, useful or not.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Anthony Blair promised The U.K.
a referendum on The New Constitution ( we don't have a U.K. Constitution, not thought to have been necessary,
we also did quite well without political correctness or human rights)
Our new bloke Mister Brown   says we don't need one.
If there was an election tomorrow, he would loose by the most massive amount ever.
He is so out of touch with ordinary people.
Until we get (like the Irish) our promised say,
I do not want to hear another single rule from Europe, useful or not.

Well this isn't a 'rule', and I think you are trying to hijack this topic for your own selfish rantings.

 

[whitelackington]

[/quote]
Well this isn't a 'rule', and I think you are trying to hijack this topic for your own selfish rantings.

I think Peter,
it is Mister Brown who is being selfish,
he must know that to all intents and purposes the "new" stuff is essentially the same as the constitution
on which we were promised a referendum.
How come only The Irish are let to vote, what's wrong with the rest of us.
I have a peculiar feeling other governments and the E.U. are frightened of what we would say, too frightened to give us our promised vote.
So STUFF EUROPE and any of their rulings.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Mods. Can we remove irrelevant posts from this topic. I don't mind WL posting his thoughts on Europe in idle chat, but it isn't relevant here.

 

[whitelackington]

Mods. Can we remove irrelevant posts from this topic. I don't mind WL posting his thoughts on Europe in idle chat, but it isn't relevant here.

Peter are you related to gordon brown,
I hope you don't want to stiffle oppinion,
that would be awful. :

 

[Andy Sparrow]

Oh well, if we are going to go off topic perhaps the euro-ranters would like to consider this.

A short while a go a BBC Newsnight reporter went a medium sized UK manufacturing company to ask the staff 'what are the essential issues for you in the next election?'

First they asked the Managing Director:

'Europe!' he said, 'we really need to be in the Euro to compete.  Most of what this company produces goes to Europe.  The jobs in this factory depend on Europe.'

Then they asked the bloke on the shop floor:

'Europe!' he said, 'we need to get out of Europe and keep the pound!'

 

[Peter Burgess]

Does this initiative only cover natural caves? Would it be relevant for archaeologically important mine workings?

 

[Andy Sparrow]

Mods. Can we remove irrelevant posts from this topic. I don't mind WL posting his thoughts on Europe in idle chat, but it isn't relevant here.

I agree.  Take off my last comment too.  I'd be embarrassed to think of any European cavers reading this bigoted drivel.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I can picture the scene now:

After a super conservation project gets off the ground in, say, France or Germany, the British euro-moaners get on their soap-boxes.

"Look at that! Spending all our money on projects in their countries"

"But you never asked us for funding assistance!"

"Well we don't want your money".

"But you just said we were spending your money on our projects"

So whose money is it?