Do cavers come first in the British Caving Association? NO!

[graham]

I'm guessing you're mebbe suggesting that cavers purchase caves, thus ensuring they have unfettered access?

BSA, under the leadership of Ely Simpson, leased Lancaster Hole and the surrounding moor with interesting consequences.

The world needs to know what the consequences were?

the world can read about this in a number of books and articles written down the years. It is not wholly relevant to today's conditions, however, as Cymmie is long gone and no-one quite so divisive is now to be found in UK caving circles.

However, there are instances today where cavers do own caves and access to these sites is rarely a problem. I can think of several, but as for caving in general, they vary in how they work according to the varying circumstances in which they are found.

 

[Alex]

Right then, if I win the lottery I am buying leck fell.

 

[Brains]

I cannot speak for MLCMAC but if you want to visit the Charterhouse controlled caves (CCC Ltd) then just turn up at the Wessex and ask for keys and permits.
No problems and no "shadowy groups".
Even if you are students.

Maybe Im just unlucky..... but I've done that three times and was successful in getting keys and permits once. One of the times the person who could issue permits had a "massive hangover" and would/could not get out of bed, the other we were given the wrong key and assured it would work as it was "the same". The person who knew had gone out for breakfast.

Unimpressive when you have driven for three hours and your caving trip is fecked up by paperwork/uninformed/drunkards.

Not bothered caving in the Mendips since.

Few years back we stayed on the 'dips and got our key and paper the night before. After a night of relaxing at the Hunters etc we were accosted by a self proclaimed officia at first light demanding our key as he wanted a trip... A certain person known only as Zot (?) told him where to go and our trip was back on. Not bothered trying to get keys and bumf since, plenty of easier to get at and friendlier places than such controlled holes...

 

[Aubrey]

Few years back we stayed on the 'dips and got our key and paper the night before. After a night of relaxing at the Hunters etc we were accosted by a self proclaimed officia at first light demanding our key as he wanted a trip... A certain person known only as Zot (?) told him where to go and our trip was back on. Not bothered trying to get keys and bumf since, plenty of easier to get at and friendlier places than such controlled holes...

How silly!

At the Wessex we have keys for members and seperate keys for guests. This is mainly so our members are not deprived of a trip just because a key has been booked out to a guest party.

 

[Brains]

Cant remember where we were tbh, might have been the Wessex!

 

[Les W]

Cant remember where we were tbh, might have been the Wessex!

Zot is a BEC member.  :-\

 

[AndyF]

Maybe you'd have had better luck with the BEC, or the Shepton, or the MNRC or the ...

By which time it would be time to go home..... 

Chris.

Really? The belfry is, what, five minutes from Upper Pitts?

I really don't want to pi55 the valuable day away on a tour of all the huts on Mendip to get a key and bit of paper. We wanted to go caving. Im sure similar things have happened at other clubs and in any case getting the wrong key is not something you discover till you are all changed and it won't go in a lock. 

As I say, can't be dealing with that kind of unnecessary crup so just don't cave there anymore  I'm not alone in this.

 

[Brains]

Cant remember where we were tbh, might have been the Wessex!

Zot is a BEC member.  :-\

So, he is a real person and not just the product of an alcohol induced hallucination! 
Must have been that hut I suppose, but was many many years ago...

 

[Alex]

Aye M**dips  :spank: is a swear word in our club due to that. Out of all the time I have been with the club (almost 3 years now) we have never done a trip to M**dips  :spank:. It is just forbidden lol, I gather it was just way too much hassle when they used to try before I joined.

Yes we do do trips outside of Yorkshire we have done two trips to South of Wales this year alone.

I guess having only a few from "up north" down there is the way you southerners like it, "We will have no northerners round here!".  :tease:

 

[Cookie]

I guess having only a few from "up north" down there is the way you southerners like it, "We will have no northerners round here!".  :tease:

Quite So.

Your loss is our gain.  :ras:

 

[khakipuce]

...
Quite So.

Your loss is our gain.  :ras:

That might have been meant in jest, but then again it really speaks volumes to see someone who is (from his sig) heavily involved in Cave admin taking people's issues so seriously.

 

[graham]

I don't doubt it was meant in jest, however, I would just like to point out that until very recently, whilst it was perfectly possible (as it still is) for cavers from oop north to turn up "on the day" and collect keys to most Mendip caves, it was impossible for southern clubs to even apply for a permit to visit many northern caves unless they first paid to join the CNCC. Not only that but they were not even allowed to join as full members but as non-voting "associates".

There's welcoming for you ...


Disclaimer: in large part it is owing to the work of many of the current CNCC officers - amongst others - that that is no longer the case.

 

[Elaine]

This doesn't excuse those who let down the people who made arrangements to pick up keys for caves though.

On the whole the arrangements work out fine with the key holder often going out of their way to sort out key collection. It is a shame that those few tales where the key holder did wrong that are the ones that are remembered.

If it is something that happens too frequently then the system needs looking into.

 

[khakipuce]

I don't doubt it was meant in jest, however, I would just like to point out that until very recently, whilst it was perfectly possible (as it still is) for cavers from oop north to turn up "on the day" and collect keys to most Mendip caves, it was impossible for southern clubs to even apply for a permit to visit many northern caves unless they first paid to join the CNCC. Not only that but they were not even allowed to join as full members but as non-voting "associates".

There's welcoming for you ...


Disclaimer: in large part it is owing to the work of many of the current CNCC officers - amongst others - that that is no longer the case.

And there are plenty of Yorksire caves (as you surely know) where no one can turn up on the day, permits must be applied for in advance - dare I mention that over worked  phrase "land owners wishes" .

But then none of them have keys or gates, so once permit has been emailed (or the bit of paper has arrived) you are not dependant on the good will of some one to be hanging around to give out a key.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Please don't paint all Mendip cavers as unwelcoming. Last night I was in the area and had arranged a couple of days beforehand by PM to meet the ATLAS team at Fairy Quarry. I had a really nice welcome, and a great evening helping out at Fernhill Cave. I am only sorry that I had to leave for home before closing time. Thanks Alan  and the rest of the group for an excellent time.

 

[Stu]

I'm sugessting that cavers dont f*** with access agreements.

if CRoW is challanged and its decided caveing is covered what happens next? presumably some caves get turn up and go acess, but various diggers, conservationists and bat people decide spesific caves still need restricted access (praps Notts 2 as an example). at this point I hypothisise that all hell breaks loose

I'm not following. The example I gave - the Allotment - would lead to all hell breaking loose how? The reason for this restriction was, from what I can gather,land management purposes. A concept which seems less strong now anyone can wander at will up there - unless you're clad in Yellow. Another example. Casterton Fell was off limits because the landowner wanted to promote shooting. Problem is it's too wet. Not much good for anything else.

I'm not talking Carte Blanche free for all. If a potential dig is found then those diggers would do what they've always done - approach the landowner; either get the yay or nay and act accordingly.

I'm always being told how farming's on its arse; I know what I'd do: exactly as at Giant's Hole - put some hardcore down and charge for parking/entry fee. 

 

[Alex]

Aye just like Alum pot, an arangement I am happy with. Land owners could go as far as boosting there income by premoting there land "Come cave under my fell for ?1" etc.

End of the day it all goes to maintaining the land we use, so I am happy with that agreement as despite it not being "free" in the monetry sense it would be "free" access as you could turn up on the day at a whim, a privilage I would be willing to pay for.

 

[Cookie]

...
Quite So.

Your loss is our gain.  :ras:

That might have been meant in jest, but then again it really speaks volumes to see someone who is (from his sig) heavily involved in Cave admin taking people's issues so seriously.

Well, there has been so much bollocks and gross generalisations posted in this thread, I thought I'd post some more - in jest of course. 

And thanks for the complement, I do take issues that come my was seriously.

 

[Alex]

Mine was is jest too, though M**dips really is a swear word here. I have yet to actually try my self so I cannot comment from 1st hand experiance.