Dyneema shock/safety cords

[IanWalker]

In my more paranoid moments I have been known to clip a crab through the holes at the top of my handled ascender which stops the rope escaping when I have been using it for protection or assistance on steeply sloping traverse line or similar, or when rigging/derigging.

from your description this sounds like proper usage of the equipment (not paranoia). assuming the old-shape handled petzl basic jammer this would be standard practice as required by the manufacturer to avoid danger of death.
https://www.petzl.com/sfc/servlet.shepherd/version/download/0681r000004z4JCAAY

note the current-model 'small' basic jammer instructions differ here but still require special action on sloping ropes.
https://www.petzl.com/sfc/servlet.shepherd/version/download/0681r0000078a2AAAQ

this might also be of interest:
http://www.scanrope.eu/download/ascender/AscenderReview.pdf

lots of interesting and useful discussion here - particularly interesting to hear users' experiences of jammer failure (there are more than i had anticipated).

 

[Fulk]

Hi Bratchley, Just to get this clear ? if one uses the long cow?s tail to jammer (with, presumably, one other [short?] CT) then, when you reach the top of a pitch you have to unclip your CT from your jammer in order to clip into the traverse line or whatever before getting off the pitch. This means that momentarily you?re depending on one (chest) jammer, and that (if you don?t have an ?anti-drop? cord) you could drop your jammer while removing it from the rope.

(Apologies if this has been covered somewhere else on this forum.)

 

[Bratchley]

Hi Bratchley, Just to get this clear ? if one uses the long cow?s tail to jammer (with, presumably, one other [short?] CT) then, when you reach the top of a pitch you have to unclip your CT from your jammer in order to clip into the traverse line or whatever before getting off the pitch. This means that momentarily you?re depending on one (chest) jammer, and that (if you don?t have an ?anti-drop? cord) you could drop your jammer while removing it from the rope.

(Apologies if this has been covered somewhere else on this forum.)

Don't have any issues clipping in with the (shorter, but not silly short) cowstail. With a pantin this is also a very smooth process as the croll can be brought even higher and get you in a good position at the rebelay. I very rarely remove the jammer from the cowstail, once the traverse is clipped with the shorter cowstail the cowstail with the jammer on can be moved and clipped with the krab onto the traverse line with jammer still attached to the krab. If it's a very steep traverse line the jammer can also be on the rope and slid along aiding your progress. 

 

[Fulk]

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[alastairgott]

I currently have... horrible 11mm dynamic
... I have some 9mm dynamic to switch to...

Sounds like a vast improvement to me!

If you think your gear is 'horrible' then I'm sure you wont have much confidence in it. People can tell you what to trust and what they trust, but the ultimate judge of that is you.

If you're not happy with a bit of gear, think about replacing it.
Or if it's a suggested change to your gear, think carefully before replacing it.

 

[Duncan Price]

I use a loop of cord to attach my top ascender to my sit harness - it serves all the uses described above and can also be re-purposed into a Prussik loop in case I need a third ascender or have lost one of the others. [I was given this advice 20-odd years ago when I attended a SRT workshop by my local grotto when living in the US - in fact the training started off by teaching us to climb a rope using Prussik knots only rather than mechanical ascenders].

Another "safety item" is the link connecting my top ascender to my footloops and safety loop which is a 12 mm delta maillon that can be exchanged with the D on my sit harness if I mislay it.  Both are alloy and weigh next to nothing.

A final tweak is my foot loop - a loop of cord with a knot in the middle. Normally one or both feet go in the bottom loop but I can step up into the loop formed by the knot to gain height at a re-belay a bit like etriers.

 

[Fulk]

Hi Duncan, these comments are made in a genuine spirit of enquiry; I am not trying to wind you up, take the piss or criticize you . . . but realistically, how likely is it that you should ?mislay? your ?-maillon (without simultaneously ?mislaying? your harness)? Does it not ?live? on your harness? You see, I find that if I have a large-diameter ?connector? on my hand-jammer, it makes it somewhat more difficult to get the thing on the rope, so I use a 9-mm MR.

And presumably your using a loop of cord doesn?t make it more likely to get snagged up as you progress through a cave (otherwise you wouldn?t use it)?

As far as I?m concerned, I?ve been using SRT for quite a long time now, but I?m always open to suggestions as to how to improve my set-up ? so please take my remarks in this context ? i.e. a willingness to look at the way other people do things and maybe learn from them.

Still, we?re all different . . . vive la diff?rence.

 

[cavemanmike]

Call me an old fuddy duddy but I stil use one length of rope  for my foot loop and safety ,as in foot loop fig eight at correct hight, length of rope at arms length.fig eight on harness end 

 

[JasonC]

Like Caveman Mike, I keep my SRT kit simple, to match its user, but I was intrigued by this:

A final tweak is my foot loop - a loop of cord with a knot in the middle. Normally one or both feet go in the bottom loop but I can step up into the loop formed by the knot to gain height at a re-belay a bit like etriers.

- as I can see the upper loop could come in handy for knot passes as well as over-tightly rigged rebelays etc.  Is this what you meant, Duncan?

 

[caving_fox]

Coincidentally This (a FB video sorry) https://www.facebook.com/100010010683488/videos/633529770324040/ came up in my feed today, showing how a croll can self open mid pitch (Irata lvl 2 training course!). It seems especially problematic when there's a lot of bulk (the rope access set-up has two oval krabs at the jammer) at the hand jammer -

Another "safety item" is the link connecting my top ascender to my footloops and safety loop which is a 12 mm delta maillon

- but even without that, at least two of my dozen or so caving facebook friends have had it happen to them.

If this happens mid pitch, your weight is on the hand jammer, standing in the footloop. If you lose balance here (flailing around in shock for instance) the only thing preventing a fall is your safety link!

 

[Duncan Price]

. . . but realistically, how likely is it that you should ?mislay? your ?-maillon (without simultaneously ?mislaying? your harness)? Does it not ?live? on your harness? You see, I find that if I have a large-diameter ?connector? on my hand-jammer, it makes it somewhat more difficult to get the thing on the rope, so I use a 9-mm MR.

I've known other people turn up without a maillon (or equivalent) for their SRT harness having taken their SRT kit apart to clean it.  This tip was given to me by the guy who taught me SRT over 30 years ago and I guess based upon personal experience.  Since my top ascender is a Petzl simple then the D-maillon makes a good hand-stop.

And presumably your using a loop of cord doesn?t make it more likely to get snagged up as you progress through a cave (otherwise you wouldn?t use it)?

I've never had to use it in anger but it has never caused me grief.  Seemed like a good idea when it was presented to me.  Keeping the foot-loops and safety loop separate works for me as I replace my foot loops more often than my safety loop.

Like Caveman Mike, I keep my SRT kit simple, to match its user, but I was intrigued by this:

A final tweak is my foot loop - a loop of cord with a knot in the middle. Normally one or both feet go in the bottom loop but I can step up into the loop formed by the knot to gain height at a re-belay a bit like etriers.

- as I can see the upper loop could come in handy for knot passes as well as over-tightly rigged rebelays etc.  Is this what you meant, Duncan?

[

Exactly - this is one trick that I came up with myself and has been useful on numerous occasions.

 

[Fulk]

Thanks Duncan ? it makes sense now.

 

[aricooperdavis]

A final tweak is my foot loop - a loop of cord with a knot in the middle. Normally one or both feet go in the bottom loop but I can step up into the loop formed by the knot to gain height at a re-belay a bit like etriers.

Nice idea. The only major downside I can see to that is that it must be quite difficult to get that length just right?

 

[Duncan Price]

A final tweak is my foot loop - a loop of cord with a knot in the middle. Normally one or both feet go in the bottom loop but I can step up into the loop formed by the knot to gain height at a re-belay a bit like etriers.

Nice idea. The only major downside I can see to that is that it must be quite difficult to get that length just right?

I think I discovered it by accident my foot loop was too long so I tied a knot in the middle of it to make it shorter then put one foot in the knot one day in order to gain height at an awkward re-belay.  Looking at my SRT kit which I've just washed from last night's grovel, the loop is made by doubling the rope, tying a fig 8 so far down and then joining the ends twice as far down using a double fisherman's which is the end where your foot/feet goes in.  When I replace my foot loops I use the old one as a template.

 

[cavemanmike]

As regards to re-belays I just stand in my pantin to gain any height I might need. Keep your kit simple

 

[IanWalker]

As regards to re-belays I just stand in my pantin to gain any height I might need. Keep your kit simple

those already using the petzl method of clipping jammer with a cowstail have the option of clipping the footloop into the cowstail crab and standing in the loop just created. pantin not required. (keep kit simple?)

 

[Fulk]

You can gain a useful bit of height (ca. 20 cm) by converting a standard footloop to a lark's head-type loop.

 

[ah147]

I took over FF1 fall once onto a daisy chain.

It really, really, really, hurt.

I had a really big padded harness on but also had a tonne of weight attached to me.

I wouldn?t recommend trying it in a caving harness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[alastairgott]

Did you stack it in Cresta run, P8?

 

[MJenkinson]

Those of you using your long cowstail as your safety link to your hand ascender..

1. Hows the footloop attached to the ascender; maillon, carabiner or just a knot?
2. Do you have a locking carabiner on your cowstail?
3. When you clip your carabiner into the ascender, do you put it through the "other" carabiner or maillon or into the ascender itself?

I ask as I was playing about with this the other week and made a footloop out of some tape I had lying about with a maillon connecting it to the ascender.

My only note is that its possible to twist my cowstail carabiner and force it to unclip from the maillon.  I don't like the idea of switching to a locking carabiner on my cowstail so I guess its just a question of likelihood of this happening/ risk.