Easter Grotto

[Wren]

I'm planning a trip to Easter grotto with some novices soon.  However, it's many years since I've been there and, although I remember it as being fairly straight forward and am pretty sure I can find the way to Holbeck Junction, I could do with a jog as to exactly the way to the Assembly Hall.  I'm OK as far as the Stal. Grill up on the right but hazy from there on.  Anybody help with specfic instructions? Thanks; Wren. :-\

 

[susie]

See http://braemoor.co.uk/cavingtrip/route1.shtml for the route from County, and http://braemoor.co.uk/cavingtrip/route19.shtml for the route from Wretched Rabbit.

 

[Pitlamp]

Wren: please, please don't take offence - but - is a sensitive place like Easter Grotto the best place to take a group of novices? The answer with your group may well be "yes" as there are novices and novices; some may have enough experience to pass through there, or at least just see, it without causing any inadvertent damage.  Just a thought . . .

I've hesitated for 24 hours before poking my nose in but I think the question is worth asking. (I found myself wondering whether this had occurred to anybody else.)

Have a good trip, wherever you end up (which could be anywhere, in the Easegill system!)

 

[susie]

I've hesitated for 24 hours before poking my nose in but I think the question is worth asking. (I found myself wondering whether this had occurred to anybody else.)

Unfortunately, there's not much left that can be destroyed inadvertently. Too many helmets have trimmed the roof. If I remember rightly, there are tapes to encourage one to keep to within a central corridor. With the opening of the Spiral Staircase connection, Easter Grotto is now 20 minutes of easy caving from the surface.

Fortunately, there are still a number of fine places in Easegill Caverns that haven't received the same publicity nor ease of access, and may it stay that way. Personally, I'm quite happy to see Easter Grotto take the traffic instead.

 

[NigR]

Must be around 28 years since I last visited Easter Grotto so anything I have to say probably isn't valid now anyway. My initial instinct was to go along with Pitlamp and question whether it would be the best place to take a group of novices in the first place. However, having read Susie's somewhat depressing comment I have changed my mind. So long as the novices are well supervised (say at a ratio of one experienced caver for every two novices) I think it would be a worthwhile exercise and could teach the beginners a thing or two about proper conservation techniques (or lack of them).

 

[Pitlamp]

I guess that's a fair comment Nig.

Right shame about Easter Grotto; the picture on the front cover of Dave Heap's book "Potholing Beneath The Northern Pennines" shows how it should be. Oh well - I hope Wren didn't take my comments wrongly anyway.

 

[cap n chris]

could teach the beginners a thing or two about proper conservation techniques

As a keen cave conservationist I'm intrigued to know what "proper conservation techniques" are being referred to. Any chance of enlightenment?

(p.s I'm not trolling - for a change!).

 

[cap n chris]

Right shame about Easter Grotto; the picture on the front cover of Dave Heap's book "Potholing Beneath The Northern Pennines" shows how it should be.

As a well known seminal book which inspired many a caver, perhaps the picture on the book has done more to aid and abet the detriment of Easter Grotto than any other single act. Discuss.

 

[Cavegod]

when i was in easter groto a couple of months ago it was more of a muddy mess than brilliant white formations! where as 'the chocolate box' is hardly ever visited and location not well known but if you do know where it is its well worth a visit.

 

[susie]

where as 'the chocolate box' is hardly ever visited and location not well known but if you do know where it is its well worth a visit.

As I said earlier, "there are still a number of fine places in Easegill Caverns that haven't received the same publicity ... and may it stay that way." I would hate to see this thread become a catalyst for such places to be visited.

 

[Paul_L]

where as 'the chocolate box' is hardly ever visited and location not well known but if you do know where it is its well worth a visit.

As I said earlier, "there are still a number of fine places in Easegill Caverns that haven't received the same publicity ... and may it stay that way." I would hate to see this thread become a catalyst for such places to be visited.

And you wonder why caving is in decline, god forbid the world should know that there are pretty things to see underground.

 

[susie]

And you wonder why caving is in decline

No, I don't.

god forbid the world should know that there are pretty things to see underground.

That is an intellectually untenable interpretation of what I have said, but it is, of course, your privilege to make such an interpretation. For the record, I would like to make it clear that it does not reflect my view. It is true, however, that I would not like to see the finer parts of Easegill trashed as Easter Grotto has been, and I suspect that such a view is shared by a significant proportion of cavers.

 

[cap n chris]

Well parried, Susie.

 

[dunc]

Quote from: NigR on Today at 15:23:49
could teach the beginners a thing or two about proper conservation techniques

As a keen cave conservationist I'm intrigued to know what "proper conservation techniques" are being referred to. Any chance of enlightenment?

My understanding of that comment is that by taking a small group of supervised novices to Easter Grotto you could show them what destruction cavers can cause. You could perhaps show them a picture of what it was like and then let them see what it is like now - a shadow of its former self - to me that would provide a good cave conservation message. Someone will no doubt argue that you could just show before and after pictures, true but seeing something nice with your own eyes, but not as nice as it was, gives better understanding imo. Maybe I'm wrong, as whilst being a careful caver I've not looked into the subject of conservation in great detail.

It is true, however, that I would not like to see the finer parts of Easegill trashed as Easter Grotto has been, and I suspect that such a view is shared by a significant proportion of cavers.

I agree, there are a few lesser visited places that are nice, lets hope they stay that way!
But.. As an example - Spiral Staircase - provides easier access to Upper Easegill, also has some nice straws (or at least did when I saw them last). Should we say no to linking up passages such as this, which in this example will become more visited and may see those straws trashed or could result in more (easier) visits to Upper Easegill area etc?

 

[Cavegod]

i agree we should consider the outcome of visiting the pretty places, and at the moment due care and attention and also taping routes through the nice areas is essential to preserving the formations but there is no use whatsoever them being there if we all stop going to see them is there? at the end of the day just take care as you pass them and enjoy the exploration since that was the reason they were found in the first place and also more pretty's will be found in the future.

 

[Paul_L]

And you wonder why caving is in decline

No, I don't.

god forbid the world should know that there are pretty things to see underground.

That is an intellectually untenable interpretation of what I have said, but it is, of course, your privilege to make such an interpretation. For the record, I would like to make it clear that it does not reflect my view. It is true, however, that I would not like to see the finer parts of Easegill trashed as Easter Grotto has been, and I suspect that such a view is shared by a significant proportion of cavers.

"there are still a number of fine places in Easegill Caverns that haven't received the same publicity ... and may it stay that way."

You believe pretty places should not be publicised?

I would hate to see this thread become a catalyst for such places to be visited.

You don't want more people visiting these pretty places?

What other interpretation is there?

For the record, I would like to make it clear that it does not reflect my view.

Feel free to clarify your view then; please stick to smaller words for the thickos like me....

It is true, however, that I would not like to see the finer parts of Easegill trashed as Easter Grotto has been, and I suspect that such a view is shared by a significant proportion of cavers.

I don't think anyone worthy of calling themselves a caver could disagree.

 

[susie]

Feel free to clarify your view then; please stick to smaller words for the thickos like me....

To be quite honest, I am really not inclined to argue the toss. Each of us has made his point; each of us now know where the other stands. I have no need for you to agree with me, and I suspect that it is unlikely that you have a need for me to agree with you. So shall we let it rest?

 

[cap n chris]

So shall we let it rest?

.... are you new to this caving forum malarkey, by any chance?

 

[Paul_L]

Feel free to clarify your view then; please stick to smaller words for the thickos like me....

To be quite honest, I am really not inclined to argue the toss. Each of us has made his point; each of us now know where the other stands. I have no need for you to agree with me, and I suspect that it is unlikely that you have a need for me to agree with you. So shall we let it rest?

You insult my intelligence, refuse to clarify your own opinion and want me to let it rest?

are you a politician by any chance?

PS. I'm not just a cave troll...

 

[susie]

You insult my intelligence

I apologise if you took it that way. I have no reason at all to doubt your intelligence.

refuse to clarify your own opinion

I now accept that you are correct in every respect, and I withdraw everything that I said in the posts above without reservation.

and want me to let it rest?

I'm sorry - that was a totally unreasonable suggestion.

are you a politician by any chance?

No - I'm not. But I am aware that I have all the obnoxious qualifications that a successful politician needs, but without any of the redeeming features.

PS. I'm not just a cave troll...

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I am sure that it must be right.