Electric vehicles (split from Electricity smart meters)

[Von Trippenhof]

The human rights issues around cobalt sourcing are horrendous, however unlikely to be for long. CATL and Svolt (two of the big Chinese battery makers) have both announced their new generation of cells that are entering production now are cobalt free. And they are managing to be cheaper and higher capacity to boot. Tesla is making a fuss about it, but apparently they are supplying to a large European oem too.

To remain a little cynical, and I?m extrapolating a bit from the related semiconductor industry I work in, but I suspect this isn?t driven by the human rights as on the PR releases. Unlike petrochemicals where you have to dig them up where you find them, with sufficient investment, research and incentive alternative chemistry can be found. China has various five year plans to end dependence on other countries for tech. Not needing to bring cobalt over from Africa would fit with that. And China?s rep for human rights isn?t exactly storming.

To continue the human rights-batteries story... To up supply to European OEMs, Svolt are planning to build a factory in the EU, to allow them to take advantage of the better EU tariffs for made in Europe goods. The factories will need to meet western expectations for workers rights.

Before I come across as too evangelical, I think that in all of this, the unsustainable part is that everyone has a private magic metal box that can transport you wherever you want at high speed. However you slice it, that has a cost, either on the wallet of the user today, the environment tomorrow or the life of some poor sod digging up stuff. It?s all about balance and as I think someone said higher up, just swapping pistons for batteries is the least imaginative way of achieving that.

Thing is, I really like swanning off for weekends away.

 

[Pitlamp]

Some interesting words there VT - and food for thought.

In my case, I'm increasingly trying to make use of public transport where possible, minimising the use of the car. In this way I now seem to drive less than 6,000 miles a year where once I'd do 20,000. But the car does need to be there because you can't get off Leck Fell at midnight after a long day out by bus or a train. Any caving project needing a large amount of gear (cave diving springs to mind) is impossible in most cases without personal transport of some sort.

This conversation reminds me of the times when I'd think nothing of riding a 100 cc motorbike, on L plates, from Sheffield to the Dales and back, whilst wearing a pair of side mounted cylinders and a massive rucsack. I bet the police would take a dim view of that nowadays.  :-\

 

[Fjell]

What is VW?s cunning battery plan? Because they are investing a shed load to produce 1.5 million EV cars a year by 2025, which is about 10% of European total demand for cars on it?s own. This seems to imply more like 30% EV market share by then. Germany seems to have decided diesel won?t save the planet after all.

 

[mountainpenguin]

https://www.plower.nl/electric-defender
or
https://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/4x4s/land-rover-defender-gets-450hp-electric-transformation
If you want a 4x4 not the lack of noise

 

[Robert Scott]

Three years ago I visited Cuba, where electric motor bikes are fairly common. The problem is, they are virtually soundless, and they creep up on you (there tends to be not much traffic on Cuban streets and people often walk along the road and get a bike up their arse if they're not careful).

In Cuba, given the dilapidated state of "pavements", it is easier to walk in the road being slightly less dilapidated. And yes the electric "Vespas" are a bit startling. But it's a lovely country to visit - a bit run-down but hey-ho at least only the army have guns.

 

[Robert Scott]

I see electric cars as a stop-gap, the future is surely hydrogen fuel cells - witness the tide/wind/hydrogen experiment in the Orkneys. It surprises me that the car manufacturers haven't invested the development of this technology which would work equally for cars, 32-ton artics and buses. And dare I say railway locomotives where overhead lines would be prohibitive.

 

[MarkS]

Do hydrogen fuel cells not suffer from a storage issue, rather like electric cars suffer from the issue of battery technology?

 

[hyweldavies]

They are quite nippy those electric bikes. Not sure you should be allowed to ride one with no licence or insurance though

https://youtu.be/vlxZs2-gICc