Entrance Series?

[n?π]

After noon all,

Is there a formal definition of what constitues an entrance series of a cave? or is it set for each cave? or is it a vague thing like saying "the first bit"?

I know what the entrance series for Swildons is i.e. anything above water chamber maybe as far as the 20, but what would people class as the entrance series for Eastwater for example? The entrance to the begging of the traverse? The entance to the end of the traverse? the entire upper series?

N.B. This has nothing to do with the current wezzit, other than making me wonder if their is a definition for "entrance series". No clues to be had here folks!

 

[estelle]

i always think of it as a vague distance until you reach something named in the cave or something referred to as another "'something' series" or a clear junction. For example, in say Eastwater, i'd refer to the boulder ruckle to the point where you get the junction for 380ft way and upper traverse and route up to woggle press as the entrance series.

 

[dunc]

I would guess it varies a fair bit from cave to cave and caver to caver! No set rules, just whatever seems right (like estelle says, junction, chamber or similar feature), don't know Eatswater so can't comment on that. 

 

[paul]

It depends on the cave, as I understand it. A part of the cave which is passed through from the surface before reaching the "main part of the cave".

A good example may be Daren Cilau. The initial crawl leads to much bigger and longer passages so could be described as the "entrance series", although it used to all of the cave before the major extensions were discoveries in the mid 80's.

 

[bren]

As has been said it differs from cave to cave and between cavers perspective.I would generally say that when a significant point of a cave be it a squeeze,pitch,chamber or formation is found this would be a usual division of the system.It doesnt really matter to be honest,most man-named dividers are for the purpose of route finding and location finding.My personal definition would be the first junction where a route option is available or the first crawl to an open(ish) chamber or streamway.Saying that tomorrow my opionion could be diffrent after being in a certain cave.Think the idea is just to enjoy the cave and make your own opinions of where the divisions are or should be.Caving for me is a personal thing and if no clear definiton is set out on the survey the entrance series end where you feel it should.

 

[n?π]

Awsomel, cheers for you help folks.

 

[Bob Mehew]

Two thoughts occurred to me.  One you used "entrance series".  "series" is a plural word which implies there is more than one passage.  So should one restrict this descriptor to places like the uppers series of Swildons where there are several passages leading to a common point?

It then occurred that very few caves directly start with a "main passage", Calf Holes was the only example I could quickly come up with.  Usually, one gains entry to the main passage via a subsidiary passage of which I guess Easegill would be a good example where there are many such entries which lead to a common point.  So is the term "entrance series" being used to acknowledge there are or might be yet to be discovered entrances passages elsewhere? 

And as an after thought, can one have both a subsidiary entrance plus multiple passages making it an entrance series series?

 

[barrabus]

Everybody knows the Entrance Series is the bit before the Master Cave!

 

[paul]

Two thoughts occurred to me.  One you used "entrance series".  "series" is a plural word which implies there is more than one passage.  So should one restrict this descriptor to places like the uppers series of Swildons where there are several passages leading to a common point?

It then occurred that very few caves directly start with a "main passage", Calf Holes was the only example I could quickly come up with.  Usually, one gains entry to the main passage via a subsidiary passage of which I guess Easegill would be a good example where there are many such entries which lead to a common point.  So is the term "entrance series" being used to acknowledge there are or might be yet to be discovered entrances passages elsewhere? 

And as an after thought, can one have both a subsidiary entrance plus multiple passages making it an entrance series series?

I would say not necessarily so. The "series" implies, in my opinion anyway, a sequence of features leading to the "main" section of the cave - not necessarily just passages. The cave may only have a single entrance to the surface, yet have an "entrance series". For example where a series of pitches follow closely one after the other leading to a streamway and a more horizontally-developed cave.

Anyway - there appears to be no exact definition of "entrance series" only a concept.

 

[kay]

It then occurred that very few caves directly start with a "main passage", Calf Holes was the only example I could quickly come up with. 

Does that depend on how you get into the cave? If you enter a rising you are often into the main passage straight away - eg Browgill, Borrins Moor from the resurgence, Great Douk, Gatekirk.  Then there are others where you intersect the main passage - Calf Holes, Skirwith, arguably Churns. (And there are those which only have one passage anyway.)

 

[987056]

Isn't it usualy up to the original discoverers what each bit of the cave is called unless the don't name any thing?

 

[paul]

Isn't it usualy up to the original discoverers what each bit of the cave is called unless the don't name any thing?

Yes. But the topic under discussion ia "entrance series" which is a generic term like "entrance", "bottom", "first pitch", etc.

 

[gus horsley]

I've always understood the term to be arbitary and varying in its context.  Quite often I've used it when describing a cave to someone, such as "there's a 50ft pitch at the end of the entrance series", even if the cave hasn't got an officially-designated entrance series.

 

[graham]

Doesn't the entrance series end round about the big chamber near the entrance?

 

[langcliffe]

Some people on this forum would have made superb Medieval theologians:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_many_angels_can_dance_on_the_head_of_a_pin%3F

 

[Alex]

Aye there seems to be alot of how many angels can stand on a pin. Are you all that bored. Here's a thought. GO CAVING!

 

[potholer]

One cave in Slovenia I've been helping explore for years, I tend to think of the 'entrance series' as being the succession of pitches dropping to -450m, where it starts to get more semi-horizontal. I've thought of it like that even since the point where it wasn't at all far from the end of the cave back to there.

Though there's no great change in size, or branching of passages at that point, and the passages and pitches below aren't particularly awkward, at least for a while, there's more faffing than abseiling, and even though there are some decent pitches further on, they're more isolated rather than being a long series.
The -450 point is the place where on the way out, it's really easy to go semi-automatic, and start working on keeping good rope technique and a nice rhythm, and ticking off rope sections in the head.