Famous bit of dive kit

[Benfool]

The line could be anywhere and would very much depend on the passage itself and how much visibility the diver had when they laid it.

Indeed, when the diver eventually found the line again, they could be in a situation where they don't know which direction is out. Often divers put markers on the line when they originally lay it (bits of tape shaped as arrows, actual plastic arrows or 2 cable ties together of different lengths), which can hopefully give somebody an indication of the way out. Alternatively the diver could try one direction and see if any of the features on the line (for example line belays or walls or features on the floor) are familiar, or try and find an area with better visibility to then use a compass.

Non of this is ideal though, hence the emphasis on not loosing the line!

 

[Pitlamp]

You should definitely not be using your search real for looking at leads - its for emergency use only!

B

I'll let you give Geoff a telling off then 

 

Paul Atkinson borrowed my search reel on the day he discovered the Shallow Route in Joint Hole.  (I was on the surface when I gave it to him though.  )

What doesn't seem to have been emphasised above is the importance of trying to stay aware of the main trend of the main line at all times. This then allows you to swim at 90 degrees to where it should be running, greatly increasing the chances of recovering the main line again. The compass is one of the most important pieces of equipment for a cave diver.

 

[Duncan Price]

The compass is one of the most important pieces of equipment for a cave diver.

...its principle use is to tell you where your (steel) cylinders are.

8)

 

[Blueberry]

The longest time I know of  anyone having lost the main line and having to search for the main line, (out line) is 28 minutes. (you have to live). Cave Pollatoomary, diver Artur Kozlowski, 2011. See 'The Darkness Beckons' Martyn Farr 2017 edition pages 163-165. For more information.  Half an hour, trying to keep it all together shows a certain mental resilience. 

 

[Ian Ball]

Or from the man himself : Part One

Part Two

 

[Pitlamp]

The compass is one of the most important pieces of equipment for a cave diver.

...its principle use is to tell you where your (steel) cylinders are.

8)

Even so, a standard magnetic compass was used to create a survey of a well known northern underwater cave with a misclosure of just 0.7%. I'll settle for that accuracy, if trying to relocate a main line.

 

[Duncan Price]

The compass is one of the most important pieces of equipment for a cave diver.

...its principle use is to tell you where your (steel) cylinders are.

8)

Even so, a standard magnetic compass was used to create a survey of a well known northern underwater cave with a misclosure of just 0.7%. I'll settle for that accuracy, if trying to relocate a main line.

I have only found it a problem with smaller cylinders - my 3's are very magnetic.  For accurate survey work I used to remove the compass from my wrist and hold it out in front of me to sight along the line.  I drifted away from the line once whilst making notes in Pwll-y-Cwm.  Rather than deploy my search reel, I simply looked at my notes, set my compass to 90? from my direction of travel and was able to find the line straight away.  My main use for a search reel has been to perform (temporary) repairs to broken lines.

 

[Paul Marvin]

Yep, pretty much what Sam said.

You've lost the line in zero visibility. You attach the line reel to a handy rock (some emergency line reels have a lead weight on it so you dont need to do this) and use this to find the line. This can be done using several methods - one of which is to head out in spokes like Sam mentioned. Another is to feed out a length of line and go around in a circle looking for the line until you think you've gone all the way around. Then feed out another length and go around again. Repeat until you've either found the line or run out of gas.

Its really hard and is a last resort. Most import thing is to not loose the line in the first place.

Would dive lines usually be to the side of passages or chambers? (I'm thinking mines here rather than narrow cave systems)? Or could they run though large flooded chambers?
If the line runs through the middle of a chamber, when you re-find the line, how do you know in which direction to follow it? I've seen tags/arrows tied on the line....?

Phil generally speaking I like to put line on the left going in and as low as poss but usually things have to change when looking for a belay point , its not generally a good idea to keep criss crossing passages or lines to high as they become bad tangle points. The only time I got tangled in one was a high one that caught around my helmet lights , apart from when I was training when  Gavin Newman used to like to tangle you up on purpose as part of a drill  whilst wearing no mask. Nowadays the no mask scenario has been replaced with a blacked out mask

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Just watched "Underground Eiger"  (and a couple of other relevant Sid Perou films), being a non diver that put the reel into context. Some great films there!

 

[Paul Marvin]

Just watched "Underground Eiger"  (and a couple of other relevant Sid Perou films), being a non diver that put the reel into context. Some great films there!

Yes they are very important

 

[Blueberry]

A good film is 'The Ario Dream- The quest for Europe's Deepest Cave' can be found on Amazon Prime. Featuring Tony Seddon of Starless River. Interesting to see how Russians cave too.

 

[Benfool]

The Underground Eiger wasn't actually made by Sid, although I believe Lindsay Dodd was involved who did the sound for many of Sid's films.

I personally think its the best caving film ever made and has been really inspirational to my own cave diving.

B

 

[aricooperdavis]

A good film is 'The Ario Dream- The quest for Europe's Deepest Cave' can be found on Amazon Prime. Featuring Tony Seddon of Starless River. Interesting to see how Russians cave too.

Also available on Vimeo On Demand if you don't like supporting that tax avoiding astro-bellend :halo:

 

[Ian Ball]

Tony?

 

[Blueberry]

Tony?

Spoiler alert, he makes the connection.

 

[sinker]

.....tax avoiding astro-bellend