S
stuart j goldsmith
Guest
Hi all,
I used these cylinders for some number of years, they are bomb proof if they are in test date. If not I suggest they may have been damaged, I personally have whilst working for the Brigade have damaged a few. When damaged they get returned for destruction. The question is do you know their history.
On the comment on how long they last, 56 mins at standard consumption to empty. The Brigade use 10 mins safety in the window giving you 46 mins on a 200 bar fill.
Don't believe all you read, I have used a full cylinder under hard working conditions in 22 mins.
Regarding charging any attempt to bodge a fill connection and you are asking to be killed..
All this information is for the Sibi Gorman Firefighter BA set 2250 ltr cylinders 200 bar charge max setting 210 bar.
I used these cylinders for some number of years, they are bomb proof if they are in test date. If not I suggest they may have been damaged, I personally have whilst working for the Brigade have damaged a few. When damaged they get returned for destruction. The question is do you know their history.
On the comment on how long they last, 56 mins at standard consumption to empty. The Brigade use 10 mins safety in the window giving you 46 mins on a 200 bar fill.
Don't believe all you read, I have used a full cylinder under hard working conditions in 22 mins.
Regarding charging any attempt to bodge a fill connection and you are asking to be killed..
All this information is for the Sibi Gorman Firefighter BA set 2250 ltr cylinders 200 bar charge max setting 210 bar.
D
darkplaces
Guest
Very good point, no don't know the history, but if they were not destroyed? But that's an assumption of safetystuart j goldsmith said:
I would very much like to find out how to re-fill correctly, part of the reason for posting.
So how do I get the tanks tested, can I take them to any diving shop and ask for a test?
How much?
If not a diving shop were do I send them for testing?
Were can I get them re-filled, at any dive shop?
Do I need paperwork?
Some very interesting reading thanks everyone.
Johnny
New member
So how do I get the tanks tested, can I take them to any diving shop and ask for a test?
Yes, as I said some dive shops may not like them but give it a go.
How much?
Dont know, I get mine done direct at the test house, ask em at the shop probably £25ish
If not a diving shop were do I send them for testing?
Test House PM me if you need the details of one but it is up north.
Were can I get them re-filled, at any dive shop?
If tested, yes your taps have a standard DIN fitting and can be filled like any scuba tank, each fill will probably cost £2.50
Do I need paperwork?
You may be asked for the test certificate
Yes, as I said some dive shops may not like them but give it a go.
How much?
Dont know, I get mine done direct at the test house, ask em at the shop probably £25ish
If not a diving shop were do I send them for testing?
Test House PM me if you need the details of one but it is up north.
Were can I get them re-filled, at any dive shop?
If tested, yes your taps have a standard DIN fitting and can be filled like any scuba tank, each fill will probably cost £2.50
Do I need paperwork?
You may be asked for the test certificate
D
darkplaces
Guest
Not shockingly hard or expensive then
I found a list of Air and Gas Supplies - I suspect the usual cave diving lot may know already but I'll post for info.
http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Air_and_Gas_suppliers_in_England
Jagman - A shop in Cumbria on that list.
I'll try a shop near me and report back, be nice to have the bottles tested.
I found a list of Air and Gas Supplies - I suspect the usual cave diving lot may know already but I'll post for info.
http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Air_and_Gas_suppliers_in_England
Jagman - A shop in Cumbria on that list.
I'll try a shop near me and report back, be nice to have the bottles tested.
nickwilliams
Well-known member
Air cylinders are usually 'destroyed' by drilling a hole in them. It's not unknown for people to weld the hole back up again, and continue using the cylinder but this is a Very Bad Idea.
Be warned that if you take cylinders to most shops and ask for them to be tested, and if when they then test them the shop deem them to have failed, they will destroy them without further reference to you. Personally, this would piss me off immensely since even though it might no longer be suitable for use as a high pressure air cylinder, I could well have another use for which it is perfectly safe.
I read somewhere recently that it's recommended practice for DIN fit cylinders to be hydraulically tested every 2 years and A-clamp cylinders to be tested every 5 years (or it might have been the other way round - can't remember the reference right now). I guess this has something to do with the use of taper and parallel threads on the cylinder necks. Taper threads are considered to be less desirable than parallel threads these days. I'll dig out the reference if you let me know you'd like me to.
It's perfectly legal for you to refill your own tanks using your own compressor even if they are out of test. The offence in the Regulations is if an employee fills a cylinder which is not in test.
Nick.
Be warned that if you take cylinders to most shops and ask for them to be tested, and if when they then test them the shop deem them to have failed, they will destroy them without further reference to you. Personally, this would piss me off immensely since even though it might no longer be suitable for use as a high pressure air cylinder, I could well have another use for which it is perfectly safe.
I read somewhere recently that it's recommended practice for DIN fit cylinders to be hydraulically tested every 2 years and A-clamp cylinders to be tested every 5 years (or it might have been the other way round - can't remember the reference right now). I guess this has something to do with the use of taper and parallel threads on the cylinder necks. Taper threads are considered to be less desirable than parallel threads these days. I'll dig out the reference if you let me know you'd like me to.
It's perfectly legal for you to refill your own tanks using your own compressor even if they are out of test. The offence in the Regulations is if an employee fills a cylinder which is not in test.
Nick.
C
cucc Paul
Guest
Look up the STCW regs for ships/shipping... this is like nromal fire fighting but also uses small spaces... also rememeber with fire ba sets you dont use any of this half twist back buissness its on fully or its off... If it has the clicky twisty valve thing it can be hard to change cylinders in dirty conditions... oh they whistle when you have a five min reserve. Can confirm they are heavy especially on ladders. Oh and the air doesnt start until you take your first breath. Make sure your mask is on full before you do though as they work on positive pressure, keeps the smoke out... If i remember more from my week running round ship super structures that are on fire I will let you know as for filling try the local fire bregade and smile lots
D
darkplaces
Guest
Click valve yeah its that one, I've practised putting it on/off, taking breath, pressing the reset button when I take the mask off to stop air blowing out. I also worked out the red twisty connector to the mask switches between air on all time and the air on inhale.
We have had a couple of instances of idiot people setting fires in the local mines, filling the place with smoke. The BA set might come in handy, removing body's or putting it out. Mind you we have a fire station with a crew who train expressly for underground fires fairly close; can anyone guess where? :-\
We have had a couple of instances of idiot people setting fires in the local mines, filling the place with smoke. The BA set might come in handy, removing body's or putting it out. Mind you we have a fire station with a crew who train expressly for underground fires fairly close; can anyone guess where? :-\
C
cucc Paul
Guest
Sounds like the same bit of kit, they're quite comfy, not in a fire though, bit too hot for my liking and the hoses are awkward and people weigh alot more when you have one on I found I think its cause you have to balance differently to make up for the lump on your back. :-[
Have fun with it though... would probably be ideal for bad air places once youve got it there
Have fun with it though... would probably be ideal for bad air places once youve got it there
The test requirement is the same for all steel cylinders, whether din or 'A' clamp, though it does vary for Ali cylinders. But Nick has raised an issue with the thread. I would expect old BA sets with Sabre taps to be taper threads. These are becoming less common as they are more likely to fail hydrostatic tests. I have a pair of old 6L BA tanks that have "20 minutes" on the side of each tank. I usually recon the are good for the best part of 40mins (total duration) each, depending on depth.
Without knowing the site, I guess you have looked at the chimney method to draw fresh air in? I would not think that air tanks were that practical for ongoing work of any duration.
Cheers,
Marcus
Without knowing the site, I guess you have looked at the chimney method to draw fresh air in? I would not think that air tanks were that practical for ongoing work of any duration.
Cheers,
Marcus
The mine we have been using the BA sets in is a colliery, zero airflow and only one fragile access. We had hoped to get through to the egress and knock a hole through to allow air to circulate but due to a serious shale fall that couldn't be passed with BA it wasn't possible.
Another factor is that it is likely that this place was once used to store some very nasty potions so a little caution is required, the other option we have is using hogger hose to blow compressed air in but that has its own dis-advantages :-\
Another factor is that it is likely that this place was once used to store some very nasty potions so a little caution is required
, the other option we have is using hogger hose to blow compressed air in but that has its own dis-advantages :-\
M
MSD
Guest
nickwilliams said:
That may be, but isn't it illegal to transport (full) out of test cylinders on the public highway?
The main irritation I have with the regulations is the demand for a visual inspection at the mid-point between hydrostatic tests. I think many people can do a simple visual inspection themselves (including removing the tap and checking for rust inside) without having to pay someone.
Mark
nickwilliams
Well-known member
MSD said:
Interesting question. I suspect that it would be fairly easy to find a piece of health and safety legislation which could be used to hit someone who was doing this in a workplace context, but the legal prohibition for someone in a leisure context is much more tenuous.
The rules for this are likely to be very different from one country to the next.
MSD said:
I agree with this. The hydraulic test is not exactly difficult to do either, although it does require some reasonably specialised equipment.
Nick.
nickwilliams said:
I don't know for sure, but my understanding is that you are not supposed to transport charged, out of test cylinders on the public highway. The real risk is IF you are involved in an accident which results in a fire, and the fire brigare turn out, and IF a cylinder pops in the fire, and IF it is subsequently discovered the the tank was out of test, I suspect you would be on a sticky wicket and a number of bits of legislation could be brought in to play. Of course all cylinders should be kept in test......... :halo: It is the individual's call.........
Marcus