Foot and Mouth

[shotlighter]

International travel and trade simply did not exist in the 50's in the way they do now.

Quite right, amongst other things, the movement of livestock around the country happens at a far higher rate than it did even at the time of the 1967 (?) outbreak. Thus the containment strategies were nowhere near as effective as they may have been. It looks like, through luck or judgement, this one is being better contained than 2001 was.

Very true, when I was a kid every butcher/livestock family (they were one & the same) had their own slaughter house.
Off the top of my head I can think of 5 within 2 miles of where I live & they served shops within perhaps a 3 mile radius.

Thats without the closure of cattle markets. We used to have 3 within a 10 mile radius (Leek, Newcastle & Congleton).
Last I heard the nearest one was Shrewsbury - 'bout 40 miles away - if it's still going!
Modern health/veterinary regs. have put a stop to this, while increasing the stress on animals, the fuel used in moving them & the risk of cross infection.
BTW I'm talking 60's/70's not 50's

 

[Hughie]

Currently there are no animal movements allowed. 'Tis inconvenient, but undoubtedly the correct course of action to prevent any further spread through this method.

Allegedly there were no animal movements on or off the affected farm in the last fortnight, any movements are easily traced anyway.

It's quite interesting - we are being asked to ramp-up our biosecurity arrangements. Tricky when the countryside is to remain open (and I'm not suggesting otherwise) and the virus is airborne.

I thought the transport of the dead cattle to Somerset was an extremely stupid idea. Spoke to 4 vets today (one an expert in immunology and virology, and another an expert in bateriology) all of whom concurred.

On the transport issue, I don't know many livestock farmers who actually want to transport their livestock long distances. In the 50's most villages would have had their own slaughter facilities, negating the need for long distance travel.

 

[graham]

On the transport issue, I don't know many livestock farmers who actually want to transport their livestock long distances. In the 50's most villages would have had their own slaughter facilities, negating the need for long distance travel.

And do you know any manufacturers who actually want to ship stuff here from a factory that they have little control over in China? It's simply what is dictated by the economics of the situation. I don't believe that this is sensible, either, but while there are such large economic skews across the world it'll continue to happen.

 

[whitelackington]

In the second half of the nineteenth centuary, it was the invention of refrigeration & cheap avilability of  foriegn foodstuffs / animals
that caused a major depression in British Agriculture.
Moving animals long distances would seem to be ideal for spreading disease. :-\

 

[cap n chris]

Moving animals long distances would seem to be ideal for spreading disease. :-\

Moving people long distances would seem to be ideal for spreading disease, too.

Perhaps governments should consider legislation prohibiting international tourism.

 

[graham]

Moving anything in large quantities over large distances has a deleterious effect from a conservation point of view. There are numerous case studies that prove this. Taken to its logical extent it would mean that the only caver allowed down Swildons would be Alison, 'cos she live above it. The rest of us would just have to wait for the book.

 

[whitelackington]

20,000 pigs have been ordered to be slaughtered in Romania because of the highly virulent swine fever.
Romania is banned from exporting pork to the rest of The E.U. as it repeatedly experiences swine fever.

 

[Dep]

Aren't most of the above comments about transport of livestock/meat over international distances yet another argument against globalisation?

Shot-lighters comments about the localised farms/abbatoirs and butcher's shops in every village is a good one, I remember similar from my childhood (1970s)

Mass movements of animals and people cannot be a good thing from the point of view of spreading disease.
I am vaguely aware that we have a human TB problem in this country caused by mass immigration. (and no this isn't a rant about immigrants) - simply the observation that a large influx of people from poorer countries who have not succeeded in getting on top of this and other diseases are bringing the disease back to this country that had almost eradicated it.

To have an effective global market and maintain standards requires a level playing field, all countries must have the same set of standards and conditions otherwise it just upsets the apple cart.


One other thing about F&M that puzzles me:
In 2001 we culled all infected animals and any that might have had contact. As far as we could tell there were no animals with the disease from the end of the last outbreak to the start of the current one.
So where has the disease been harbouring?

 

[Hughie]

So where has the disease been harbouring?

Pirbright laboratories, apparently.

 

[whitelackington]

Footpaths around Bracknell have been closed because of Foot & Mouth
we are not even in the survelence zone,
mind you we are close to it.

 

[AndyF]

I hope they look after the Smallpox virus bank a bit better.....  :doubt:

 

[graham]

I hope they look after the Smallpox virus bank a bit better.....  :doubt:

In about 1979, smallpox escaped from a lab at Birmingham Uni. That was the last time folks in this country needed to be vaccinated against that disease.

 

[dunc]

Be reet.. Its down south so no threat to the main caving regions, I doubt the muppets (sorry, government) would do like they did last time and go for a countrywide ban and even if they did there is still plenty of places to go underground as was proven in 2001..

 

[cap n chris]

still plenty of places to go underground as was proven in 2001..

Really? IIRC the only caves here which were possible to visit were showcaves and those which people dug open in carparks of pubs.

 

[dunc]

Quote from: dunc on Today at 20:28:57
still plenty of places to go underground as was proven in 2001..
Really? IIRC the only caves here which were possible to visit were showcaves and those which people dug open in carparks of pubs.

If you re-read my post it says underground, not just caves.
And theres nowt wrong with trips into showcaves (beyond the touristy bit anyway) and certain mine trips.. And IIRC by summer some caves were becoming accessible anyway (well Peak and then slowly the Dales), which was about 4months after fandm appeared..

 

[snugfitcaver]

Hi to one & all

It is with Sad heart & soul.
That this is my first posting on this forum it comes at a time when FOOT & MOUTH
crosses my path again as it did in 2001
I was at the WESSEX on the sat night only to wake up to find ALL CAVES where
closed (I had to wait approx 6 months before i could do my first real caving trip)
During this period I had my holiday in SEDBURGH Cumbria as I have for passed 10
Years.
I witnessed the devistation caused around the Dales first hand.
having made friends with a fair few locals (in the pubs) over the years to see the Farmers amongst
them change from happy go lucky types to heartbroken & downtrodden by the affair.

I can only say i feel sorry for farmers to have go through it all AGAIN !!!!!

And as to Containment moving the dead carcusses to somerset !!! GREAT drive it straight through the middle of arable England in sealed artic "yeah allright" thats
SURREY-HAMPSHIRE-WILTSHIRE-SOMERSET just like in Cumbria (to that Airfield)
Some containment that is????
Is there no incinorater nereby (or maybe the smell will be to much to bear ???)

AND was it not  MAFF & E.U regs that caused all the little abottiors to close under health reasons (may be the E.U should off looked closer to home first before declaring ours unfit ?? )
it appears D.E.F.R.A  (DEFINATLY EVADING FROM RESPONABLE ACTIVE) are only
acting in everybodys interest ?

what,s the betting on a name change again  ?????


Sorry to moan on about this

but as a EX Agriculteral tyre fitter (15 years ) i can relate to farmers on this ...

many regards
              SNUGFITCAVER

ps I was the mistery caver @ sump 1

Glad she had good trip & to do the sump as well  EXCELLENT !!!!!
maybe I will see them again sometime ??
"SWILDONS IS THE BEST CAVE ON MENDIP"
regards
  Snugfitcaver

 

[Dep]

Hi Snugfitcaver, welcome to the forum.

...and great to wrap up that mystery.

Just one more thing though:
You said there were two unusual things beyond the sump and that she should find out what they were...

We were puzzled, the obvious first one is the Wookey Hole sign...
But what was the second - the rope down from the Round trip route or sump 2 or what?

 

[whitelackington]

If the virus is strongly suspected as having eminated from either of the facilities in Pirbright,
yet it is not known how
and apparently the transmission route may never be found
how come it is so safe to transport the carcasses across the South of England from Surrey to Somerset in tippers :-\

 

[Hugh Jampton]

Good God,

I really do hope they stop this outbreak as soon as humanly possible. I live in the area and my son in laws family have been involved with "bagging heads" since last weekend. I leave that with your imagination. So far, all I hear from the Government is that they are not shutting footpaths !! Local people however and breeders form other areas have already decided to do this. It's not that bloody hard is it ! I listen every day to the feeble excuses coming out of Government as to what caused the outbreak.

How do we move this from "idle chat" as the only real "idle chat" is from this Government.

Right, getting off my soapbox now.

 

[Bob G]

It's only a matter of time before somebody accuses Meriel of deliberately releasing a strain of FMD for which they have the vaccine, but hitherto no demand for it in the UK. Some people are just too suspicious. It was probably some kind of accident.