Gear in Brown Hill Pot

[MarkS]

Does anyone know the owner of the ropes in Brown Hill Pot? Presumably they are also the owner of the harness hanging part way down the first pitch.

I generally have no problem with rigging being left in place for long term projects, but some of the rigging in Brown Hill is a bit annoying for other visitors. Some knots have been attached to anchors both with small loops of rope as well as with karabiners/snapgates, meaning there is little room in the anchors for anyone who would rather use their own gear. Unclipping the karabiners from the anchors temporarily isn't an option because they have been in there for a sufficiently long time that they are too corroded to do so.

The last pitch was a total mess, with two manky knotted lines rigged from a thread, and two further ropes rigged from the anchors. One of these ended about 3 m off the floor and the other had a long damaged section trailing towards the sump. We removed the damaged section and de-rigged the too-short rope, which is now coiled at the start of the traverse. We could not remove the metalwork from the anchors due to the corrosion.

Unfortunately the state of disrepair of the metalwork means that it will probably need a hacksaw or an angle grinder to remove most of it. I hope it has not been forgotten by whoever installed it.

 

[Alex]

I think it was down there for a diving project. I think I can guess who own's it but I don't want to name them here.

 

[Ian Ball]

Alex! I read this thread and thought a retrieval mission would suit the tough BRCC team 

 

[Alex]

Except I have a bad track record of undoing crabs.

 

[MarkS]

The owner of at least some of the gear has been tracked down and notified. Thanks to those that PM'ed me.

 

[MarkS]

Just to keep this topic up to date, it seems that the origin of the karabiners is still unknown and that they were not part of the original rigging. It was originally rigged with loops of rope specifically to avoid this problem.

It is the karabiners that are the main problem, and will also be the hardest thing to sort. If anyone is planning a trip then it might be useful to take a set of mole grips and see how much of the corroded metalwork can be removed that way before anyone resorts to having to cut it off.

 

[Alex]

apologies I have admit one of those crabs is mine from a few years ago, I rigged it over the insitu one and forgot to take it back out again!

 

[Ed]

Just to keep this topic up to date, it seems that the origin of the karabiners is still unknown and that they were not part of the original rigging. It was originally rigged with loops of rope specifically to avoid this problem.

It is the karabiners that are the main problem, and will also be the hardest thing to sort. If anyone is planning a trip then it might be useful to take a set of mole grips and see how much of the corroded metalwork can be removed that way before anyone resorts to having to cut it off.

Bolt cutters. Job done

 

[porgzilla]

We went down this the other day discovering some dubious looking in situ.
The first big pitch had rope loops instead of carabiners which makes sense looking at the gear in these pictures, but there are several manky carabiners and mallions throughout which need removing I think.
The second big pitch has an in situ deviation with a right rusty carabiner. I tried to avoid using it but somehow the rust enabled it to get snagged between ropes; it sprung loose, nearly blinding me.

I suspect most of this will be rectified when the diggers breakthrough (unless someone would like to join me for a clean up trip)

But, and something that intrigued me, in the first picture it looks like the rusty mallion is eating into the anchor. I didn't really have time to inspect further, what's the consensus?

 

[hannahb]

Apparently rusty metal in contact with stainless steel can cause the stainless to corrode. Please would you make an anchor report on the CNCC website? I'll let the team know to look here too.

 

[s_allshorn]

Was the mallion seating in the groove under the anchor? Did has it created it?

 

[porgzilla]

Was the mallion seating in the groove under the anchor? Did has it created it?

I can't recall.

This is the pitch before the sump I should clarify.

Is this something to pay attention for in the future?

 

[s_allshorn]

Not especially, I don't think. The groove may have been made by the installer when the anchor was installed.

 

[IanWalker]

But, and something that intrigued me, in the first picture it looks like the rusty mallion is eating into the anchor. I didn't really have time to inspect further, what's the consensus?

It sounds like you thought the anchor was being eaten away but didn't look further. I am intrigued - did you choose to use it without checking? A proper look is required to be sure, as required by the user pre-use inspections: https://cncc.org.uk/equipment/anchor-safety/

An inspection cannot be done remotely using your image and description. But in my experience it would be more common for the maillon to corrode preferentially due to galvanic action. I have removed a few stuck maillons that are very worn/corroded at the contact point. This should provide peace of mind for longevity of such anchors in general but is NOT a reason to miss out pre-use checks on each anchor.

(It's also another good reason not to blindly trust in-situ gear, not to leave in situ gear unmaintained, and not to leave corrodable gear underground for long periods. As people have pointed out above, in situ gear also hinders other users from inspecting the anchor easily.)

Summary - the CNCC/BCA stainless anchors so far have a good record for resisting corrosion but each user needs to do the pre-use check.

Unsatisfactory anchors can be reported here:

Report a defective anchor

Use this form to report a defective anchor. Please include as much information as you can such as the exact location of the anchor. If possible, please use the

cncc.org.uk

Cheers,
Ian - Anchor Coordinator 2025/26

 

[porgzilla]

I did check, and gave all anchors a wobble test for what that's worth.

I had decided on the way down that pitch that I would wait for my mate at the top and grab a few pictures. The mallions were manky which is why we didn't use them but I didn't expect to find a corrosion on the anchor, that's why I was asking.

We hadn't scheduled in fiddling and poking at anchors into our callout so this was the best I could manage in the time.

Edit: What's preferrentially? Does that mean some sort of contact transfer?

 

[ChrisB]

Preferential corrosion can happen when dissimilar metals are in contact. It the principle that's used to protect steel ships by attaching zinc anodes.

 

[IanWalker]

I did check, and gave all anchors a wobble test

Good to hear, thanks for clarifying

I didn't expect to find a corrosion on the anchor, that's why I was asking.

Diagnosing from a photo is difficult, looking in person is the only real way to check. If you think the anchor itself is corroded I would encourage you to report it using the link above.

Edit: What's preferrentially? Does that mean some sort of contact transfer?

When dissimilar metals are in contact in a wet environment, one can corrode before the other due to an electrical chemistry effect (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion). One metal is corroded first (preferred) or sacrificed. The other metal being - to an extent - preserved for a time. I'm not sure if a tranfser of material is required. The order is determined by the sequence in the galvanic series:-

Zinc coating or galvanising steel is a common example. The zinc coating on the maillon corrodes before the steel, keeping the steel protected for a while. Likewise the steel maillon would normally corrode before the stainless steel anchor.

It's possible that the anchor is worn from prolonged rubbing movement or defective in some other way.

Hope this helps,
Ian.

 

[topcat]

I think the whole lot needs taking out asap. ie before I go down again

I don't have an issue with rigging being left for a purpose but it needs to be maintained.

 

[porgzilla]

I think the whole lot needs taking out asap. ie before I go down again

I don't have an issue with rigging being left for a purpose but it needs to be maintained.

Agreed.
I think the gear in there might be 15 to 20 years old.
On the way down it was annoying, on the way out it was aggravating.
It's a difficult enough cave owing to bag management. Dodging and untangling from old in situ gear was the pits and makes things harder than they need to be.

 

[porgzilla]

That said, I'm going to immediately contradict myself that I have and do enjoyed caves with in situ rigging.
I suppose etiquette might be that if gear isn't maintained, remove it...