Goatchurch rescue

[martinr]

http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2011/03/19/woman-rescued-after-three-hour-caving-ordeal

A woman was rescued from a cave after injuring herself while taking part in an organised trip underground.

The 18-year-old slipped and dislocated her knee cap about 100m from the entrance to Goatchurch Cavern in the Mendips...........

 

[Andy Sparrow]

http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2011/03/19/woman-rescued-after-three-hour-caving-ordeal

A woman was rescued from a cave after injuring herself while taking part in an organised trip underground.

The 18-year-old slipped and dislocated her knee cap about 100m from the entrance to Goatchurch Cavern in the Mendips...........

I believe the 'three hour ordeal' would have been a two hour ordeal if the police hadn't once again cocked-up the MCR call-out procedure.  In the absence of MCR the fire brigade sent men underground - not an ideal state of affairs.

 

[graham]

Yeah, meant we were an hour late starting our surveying trip. 

 

[Amy]

3 hrs doesn't seem like that long, and once cave rescue got to her, 15 min to get out? that seems pretty fast to me! glad it ended well =)

But...why were paramedics underground before cave rescue? Are the paramedics there trained in such situations or something? Just curious as that bit seemed odd, don't want to have to rescue additional people for going in unequipped/untrained

 

[dunc]

But...why were paramedics underground before cave rescue? Are the paramedics there trained in such situations or something? Just curious as that bit seemed odd, don't want to have to rescue additional people for going in unequipped/untrained

Why indeed, I think questions need asking (again, by the sounds of it..)

It would appear somewhat strange that the people who know most were in after others that know less. I wonder what fuss will be created if something goes wrong on a rescue where cave rescue haven't arrived due to call-outs being messed up?

 

[Rhys]

Yeah, meant we were an hour late starting our surveying trip. 

Boo hoo!

 

[graham]

Yeah, meant we were an hour late starting our surveying trip. 

Boo hoo!

Not really, had a nice cup of tea first. 

 

[cap n chris]

When was this? I'm guessing it's a separate incident from the dislocated kneecap rescue* in Sidcot Swallet a coupla-three weeks ago.


* Yes, apparently it was a rescued kneecap which had been dislocated; brought to the surface safely with its owner still attached, too, appruntly.

FWIW prone-to-dislocation-people are vetoed by some instructors.

 

[graham]

When was this?

Last Thursday afternoon.

 

[cap n chris]

Thanks! - I bumped into a Scout leader at Priddy today who was trying to locate 34 of his troop before they headed off to Burrington and environs. Makes you wonder whether shoe-horning people into caves means plenty of useful shoe-horns are available to assist casualties in dire straits.

 

[tony from suffolk]

This is a great album -

 

[graham]

Duncan dived Dire Straits on Thursday. There were no casualties. 

 

[cap n chris]

But...why were paramedics underground before cave rescue? Are the paramedics there trained in such situations or something? Just curious as that bit seemed odd, don't want to have to rescue additional people for going in unequipped/untrained

Why indeed, I think questions need asking (again, by the sounds of it..)

It would appear somewhat strange that the people who know most were in after others that know less. I wonder what fuss will be created if something goes wrong on a rescue where cave rescue haven't arrived due to call-outs being messed up?

On review, this sounds somewhat disconcerting: is it the case that there have been (an unspecified number) instances where cave rescue callouts do not go as smoothly as one might hope/expect?

In time of need, people will be relying on the cavalry arriving; the cavalry themselves are reliable but how reliable is the method of alerting them? I think some people might get livid at the thought that a lot of time, effort, planning, training, practice, organisation etc., goes into creating an effective local rescue team and yet the official communication system lets everyone down since it appears to hiccup on a regular basis between the point of need and the point of delivery. Thankfully no-one has died, yet.

 

[martinr]

Thankfully no-one has died, yet.

Not in England. Might be a different story in Scotland though?

 

[Duncan Price]

Duncan dived Dire Straits on Thursday. There were no casualties. 

I lost two pencils and had to count down my decompression stop in zero vis.

I stopped in the Coombe en route to Cheddar to offer my services but as the casualty was coming down the road in a stretcher and I only had my diving gear in the car then I wasn't needed.

 

[Amy]

There was a similar mine casualty just...last week? here in the states. Interesting because the rescue was called off even though the person was still alive. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110306/ap_on_re_us/us_mine_accident_playing_god

Someone from the area's mine rescue commented but they were never called in, although they tried contacting the authorities to offer help. Apparently, it was declared too unstable and putting rescuers at too much risk when the people there trying to rescue sent two people down at the same time, one showered debris on the one below. It was apparently the rescue group on site's first mine rescue, rather than having the team who trains for abandoned mine rescues come in. Sad all around =( Hard to know exactly what happened though, other than the fact it does seem that the best-trained team for the rescue was not the one actually rescuing so it seems dangers may not have been properly evaluated (like, sending two down at once so one gets konked with debris doesn't seem like the smartest thing).

*shrugs* And then sometimes things happen that are shitty anyway. 2 kids recently died at Ellisons (http://www.newschannel9.com/news/says-998546-students-ashburn.html) and even with the best vertical rescue team there (they actually got the call out during their meeting) seriously they had probably the best trained folk in the US in vertical rescue work, but even with good timing and proper working it wasn't enough to save them...they'd rigged *in* the waterfall, were in tshirt and shorts, no proper ascending equipment and rope that didn't reach the bottom. Dangling in the waterfall like that, even good timing and the best rescue team wasn't enough =(

 

[Deuchar]

But...why were paramedics underground before cave rescue? Are the paramedics there trained in such situations or something? Just curious as that bit seemed odd, don't want to have to rescue additional people for going in unequipped/untrained

Why indeed, I think questions need asking (again, by the sounds of it..)

It would appear somewhat strange that the people who know most were in after others that know less. I wonder what fuss will be created if something goes wrong on a rescue where cave rescue haven't arrived due to call-outs being messed up?

On review, this sounds somewhat disconcerting: is it the case that there have been (an unspecified number) instances where cave rescue callouts do not go as smoothly as one might hope/expect?

In time of need, people will be relying on the cavalry arriving; the cavalry themselves are reliable but how reliable is the method of alerting them? I think some people might get livid at the thought that a lot of time, effort, planning, training, practice, organisation etc., goes into creating an effective local rescue team and yet the official communication system lets everyone down since it appears to hiccup on a regular basis between the point of need and the point of delivery. Thankfully no-one has died, yet.

When you dial 999 an operator will answer and ask, "Emergency. Which service, please? A bit more detail is required. Did the 999 caller ask for police and then Cave Rescue? Or did the person not specify, get transferred to a police dispatcher and simply give details of the incident. Seasoned readers will know about the Dales Teams' campaign to ensure those in need get put through quickly to the right service (Cave Rescue). Consider how few cave rescue incidents 999 call centres dispatchers handle (there were only 43 underground incidents for the whole UK in 2009). A clear system for calling cave rescue is in place Nationally. 

 

[cap n chris]

Indeed. It's very well established and written on signs on the entrance to most Mendip caves. Only around here, when trying to put it into practice,  it would appear not to work very well.

 

[Gerbil007]

IIRC from the MCR meeting t'other night, there was a similar problem when rescue was called out for the recent Swildons incident. I believe the callout procedure was followed correctly, and the caller put through to Taunton police, but the bloke there was confused about what to do and also ended up using an out of date callout list.
Please note that I may have got the details of this slightly muddled; I was throwing ham pasta and beer at my face at the time! Apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick. No doubt one of the other attendees can clarify.

 

[graham]

This really needs an 'official' comment from MCR, but as far as I understand it, the problem is that there aren't very many callouts on Mendip. Thus we aren't important enough to have got included in the touch screen computerised wizzy system that the operators have in front of them. So, firstly, they are not well-versed in what to do for a cave rescue callout and, secondly, as they have to rely on a paper file (that they simply must have put in this filing cabinet somewhere, the information is not always up to date.

It is difficult to see what we can do about this.