How to retrieve SRT kit?

[_Sam]

So i'm pretty new to caving. I've done a few trips to some caves where SRT isn't required, and i'm looking into getting some training through clubs, but none seem to reply to emails.
But one question i have regarding SRT is how people retrieve their ropes/ krabs on a through trip?
Take for example county pot to lancaster hole, with a 7m pitch near the start, set up that, abseil down and continue through, would you then circle back around to retrieve it from the other enterance again? Or would you rig a retrievable abseil? Or would you just have to leave your kit there?
(County pot seems to have in situ ropes, but if it didn't, what would be the answer?)

 

[andrewmcleod]

You can rig Lancaster Hole from (almost) the surface; you only have to go down about 10m (and have a sufficiently bright light, and dry enough conditions, to check the rope has reached the floor).

Alternatively exchange trips are popular - one group goes in one way, the other goes in the other way, and then you meet in the middle (if you fail to meet up, you go out the way you came).

But you should look at the CNCC training if clubs (which ones?) aren't getting back to you.

You would have to join a club to try and get training through a club, and people in clubs are just cavers, so you have to hope there are people available, free and willing to give up their time to help. Whereas the CNCC training (as long as you are a BCA member) you just pay your money and get your training.

(Replace CNCC with your appropriate regional council if you aren't in the Dales/Scotland)

 

[wellyjen]

Welcome. Depends. Sometimes you'd come back and retrieve it via the original entrance. Better for things like your County example, where route finding and high water might prevent you reaching Lancaster Hole and you need to return to County Pot. Also, being near the entrance, it is quick to pop down and derig the pitch. Retrievable abseils are often used on multiple pitch through trips, but a hung up rope, route finding, or water problems can leave you stuck and needing rescue. They are great fun, but have a higher built in risk. I'll take two ropes, for example, in case one gets hung up and can't be retrieved.
Another approach, with two teams, is an exchange between two entrances, where one rigs the pitch(es) and the team coming the other way derig.

There is also the cordelette system, which I've never tried, or seen done.

 

[alanw]

That depends. For Lancaster Hole, there are re-belays, so for a Lancaster to County trip you'd need to return and de-rig the rope. They are near the top though, so no need to do the big pitch.

For e.g. Heron or Simpson's you'd use a doubled rope with a knot and a karabiner to stop it pulling through in one direction.

The CNCC ran a workshop on Pull Throughs: https://cncc.org.uk/training/details.php?id=61

They also do beginner's courses on SRT: https://cncc.org.uk/training/details.php?id=78

I'd always recommend doing a "traditional" in and out SRT trip first before doing a pull through: you need to be confident that you'll be able to complete the trip before committing yourself. Many possible problems: water levels, also route finding and the squeeze in "Slit Pot" in Simpson's.

Which clubs have you tried to contact, and where in the country are you? If you've tried the BPC but got no response, let me know.

 

[Alex]

Depends on how confident of the route you are, because if you pull through you cut off your escape. So I would suggest you don't pull through until you have done the route a few times. It's not that far in to de-rig it afterwards, though quite a surface walk from Lanc to County.

 

[langcliffe]

For e.g. Heron or Simpson's you'd use a doubled rope with a knot and a karabiner to stop it pulling through in one direction.

I would just use a knot.

 

[afraidofthedank]

Generally you’d pull through, which some people have referred to above. In some cases you might need to rig a traverse out to the pitch as normal then last person re-rig as pull through.

But yeah, basically the main way is to rig in such a way that you pull the rope down from the bottom and take it with you.

 

[afraidofthedank]

I should say I’ve never been in via county. Also bigger systems where you’re not SRTing once you’re in, it’s better to do an exchange or crossover trip, which requires 2 groups de-rigging each others pitches.

 

[FionaH]

The above suggestions are all basically to avoid having to circle back afterwards to descend and then ascend and derig the ropes you rigged the first time around. But sometimes that is what you do. For instance, I did JH to Peak Cavern as a through trip last year on Saturday, and we went back to JH the next day to derig it. Bit frustrating, but safer.

 

[Steve Clark]

I went on the CNCC pull-through course last year. Well worth it. It does make you think about some of the non-obvious things that can go wrong and some solutions if you get stuck. For those new to SRT (like me), or even those who are totally competent/maybe complacent you need to be aware that by rigging the rope in a way that can be pulled down can create sections of rope that are unsafe to clip into. i.e. you can potentially clip into the pull down side. Fall on cowstails and you'll drag the rope down with you.

Also, things like if you do get the rope stuck and spend 10mins jumping up and down on it, are you now 100% sure which rope is the pitch rope if you decide to climb it and fix it? You really don't want to be climbing the pull through side. What now? You could get someone to tie into the other side as a dead weight just in case for example. If you get back up the pitch, and have no incoming traverse lines you need to be very careful what you are clipping to to get off the rope and sort it out. If you drop the rope at this point you could be in a right mess with your mates at the bottom of the pitch.

Overall, it adds another layer of complexity and risk. It's pretty unforgiving if you get it wrong.

This document gives some idea of the methods (although it is more aimed at instructors guiding groups in a generally fool proof way rather than a small group of competent cavers), then take a look a the CIC guidance notes :

https://british-caving.org.uk/documents/cic-pull-through-caving-techniques/?tmstv=1676928229

 

[CNCC]

_Sam, welcome to caving!

Lots of good advice above. Remember, lots of clubs have their email addresses staffed by volunteers so replies might not be quick (plus lots of clubs may struggle get your replies past spam filters etc, or their contact details may be out of date). If you are on Facebook, several larger (and many smaller) clubs are extremely active on there and other forms of social media, so this can be a better way of getting in contact. Getting involved with a caving club is an excellent way to get into caving, meet others and really involve yourself in everything caving has to offer.

To clear up a point made above, our training workshops (see below) do NOT require BCA membership. They are open to all. They are also an excellent opportunity to meet other cavers and make contacts.

CNCC Training

The CNCC has been providing training opportunities for northern cavers for over 50 years, helping to deliver skills ranging from first aid, conservation techniq

cncc.org.uk

Clubs who accept less-experienced new members are listed here:

New To Caving - You'll always remember your first steps underground...

Caves are a fascinating part of the great outdoors and their exploration is full of adventure. As with many activities there are risks. Good preparation and learning from the experience of others is key to caving safely.

newtocaving.com

Plus lots of useful information below to get started with here about safety and conservation, two of the most important fundamentals in caving to have a good appreciation of:

Safety in Caves

Some advice on how to stay safe in the caves of our regions. Research, weather and knowing the capabilities of your group.

cncc.org.uk

Cave Conservation

Most of the caves and potholes in the North of England have SSSI (Site of Special Scientific Interest) status, either for botanical, biological or geological in

cncc.org.uk

You will find all relevant northern cave access information on our website along with rigging topos, cave descriptions, and lots of other information about anchors and rigging safety. Of course, if you are not northern-based, our counterpart regional councils in Derbyshire (DCA), Wales (CCC), Mendips (CSCC) and Devon (DCUC) have similarly useful information on their website.

We really hope that you are able to find a club that can give you a warm welcome

 

[alanw]

In this morning's CNCC newsletter, they announced a load of new dates for training workshops.

CNCC Training

The CNCC has been providing training opportunities for northern cavers for over 50 years, helping to deliver skills ranging from first aid, conservation techniq

cncc.org.uk

Including a "Pull Through" Caving skills workshop on the 23 Jul 2023

Training workshop not found or has been removed.

Training workshop not found or has been removed.

cncc.org.uk