• The Derbyshire Caver, No. 158

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Ideas for a dissertation related to caving

ian mckenzie

New member
Fulk said:
I seem to recall that when the Westmorland Gazette actually got round to interviewing a black woman on this topic (or non-topic, as the case may be) she said that on the whole, black guys just aren't interested in the 'Great Outdoors'.
When in Jamaica in 1987 we came across lots of locals who knew exactly where caves were, but had never been in them.  They were keen to come in with us and exhibited great natural ability underground, but some admitted afterwards that they'd likely not go back.  Struck me as odd at the time.  But when I went back this year it seems there are small group of local cavers now.
 

AndyF

New member
graham said:
AndyF said:
graham said:
AndyF said:
Totally agree with that.... the question though is WHY its not an attractive pastime to those groups in the UK...?

Possibly, or possibly not. You'd have to do quite a lot of demographic research in the first instance to demonstrate whether there actually is - or is not - any genuine staistical mismatch here.

I don't think I need statistical observation....  I just use my eyes....

Seen every caver in the UK have you?  :coffee:

Of course not, but I have seen a very large number, and I've never been on a trip with anything near a 50/50 male female mix and I'm trying hard to recall a trip in the UK with anyone from an ethnic minority on it, which considering they make up ...what ...10% of the population would be surprising.

Its an obvious observation and doesn't need any research.

Similar can be said of many outdoor sports like climbing and hill walking.
 

graham

New member
AndyF said:
Of course not, but I have seen a very large number, and I've never been on a trip with anything near a 50/50 male female mix

Highly amusing story today told by a (female) friend of mine who apparently really upset a caver from oop north by taking his tackle bag off him and steaming ahead, having been p****d off at how slowly he was moving. Very embarrassing for macho man.
 

Hammy

Member
I have always thought that there could be interesting study to be made of temperatures in caves.

I took a few readings in Marble Steps Pot during some cold weather a couple of months ago which gave 4 degrees in the Lower Main Chamber (draughty) and 8 degrees (as expected) at the top of the 90. I was in there a couple of nights ago sweating profusely in the Intestines wondering it was just me of the temp had indeed risen slightly - my guess is that it would still be 8 degrees in reality and it was my poor technique to blame.

I always find the passages in Montague West in Lancaster and Mistral Hole to be particularly sweaty but have yet to take my thermometer in there to see for sure.

In the very cold weather back in December ice was forming underground in Long Churn a (relatively) long way from the entrances in the streamway, but it would have been interesting to take a reading say half way through Baptistry Crawl where it felt comfortably warm.

Just an idea.

 

Fulk

Well-known member
Hammy makes some interesting points about temperature underground; one thing  I've noticed is how this can affect the conditions. In summer relatively warm, moist air seems to go underground with concomitant condensation of water vapour onto relatively cold cave surfaces, while in winter the opposite happens and cave passage tend to dry out.

So the first time I went down Mistral was in the middle of a very cold spell, and the entrance crawl was quite pleasant - dry and sandy. The next time it was in the middle of warm summer weather, and the crawl was grotty and soggy.

Similarly, the traverses in Juniper Gulf are easier and more pleasnt in winter than in summer, while the 'dry' passages in the high-level route in Lancaster Hole can also vary remarkably. In a cold dry spell (such as we experienced last December) they're bone dry and easy to walk in, but in summer they can become quite slick - especially in the vicinity of Scylla and Caharybdis, where 'warm' moist air can rise from the river below. I remember on one occasion (mid-summer), when it was hard to keep one's footing all the way from Fall Pot to the Minarets on account of the condensed moisture (and where there was any non-level floor it was virtually impossible to stand up).


Anyway, Swampy, have you decided yet what you're going to do?
 

ian.p

Active member
LUUSS curantly has quite a hefty gender balance in favour of women  and of the younger active explorers i can think of a prety decent proportion are women. so i dont think the male gender bias is quite as strong as some people may think though it does seem to be more prevelent in the older caving demographic. Weve also got a prety diverse ethnic  range to the club and infact the only ethnic group i realy havnt seen very much of underground is that of afro carabian i had one theory a while ago that its possible that if your having difficulty getting enough sunlight anyway then the idea of spending many houres of your life underground in the pitch black might not be to apealing and a few of our freshers from warmer countrys got a bit put of by the cold and wet of yorkshire potholes. As pitlamp says the fact that in the caving comunity no one gives a flying f*** if your white brown or bright orange with green stripes (cos your all going to end up the same shade of brown anyway) is definatly one of its best features
 

Tony_B

Member
Les W said:
Tony_B said:
Here's a suggestion: Why are so many cavers left-handed?

What, about 25% of them?  :confused:

From my experience - and this has no scientific basis whatsoever - the percentage of cavers who are left-handed is massively above that of the general population. I understand that around 10% of humans are naturally left-handed but I promise that if you ask around your caving friends you will be astonished at how many are 'southpaws'. In particular you will find that among 'lifelong' cavers (as opposed to say, members of university caving clubs, whose caving careers may be somewhat transient) left-handedness tends to be the norm rather than the exception.

I've long been fascinated by this and have yet to hear a convincing explanation, hence the reason I suggested it as a topic worthy of investigation by the OP.
 

Swampy

New member
Fulk said:
Here's a suggestion: Why are so many cavers left-handed?

Are they?

Anyway, have you decided on a topic?

Sorry its been so long until Ive replied and i am overwhelmed with the amount of posts and help that I have had! So thanks alot everyone, Im going to research into a few before an option is decided. Ive been on holiday and also did my level 1 cave training and been revising for exams so I had forgot Id posted this in that time!

As for the ethnic debate thats become quite an interesting subject on this post, as much as it could be a dissertation itself, my house mate is doing his research masters on Ethnicity in the outdoors so i feel its a no go area for me.

 
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