If CRoW applies to caving - some comments
- Thread starter Bob Mehew
- Start date
Maybe worth noting that there is a subtle difference between different types of what should more correctly be called "instructed caving".
There is pressure for young people, as part of their normal education, to be given experience of different outdoor pursuits, one of which is caving. This is most often done through local authority centres or else by local authorities buying in expertise from a caver who has taken the trouble to take some qualification relating to safety issues, conservation, etc.
This is not quite in the same ball park as a freelance cave instructor who makes money by advertising his/her services to take non-cavers underground and is thus effectively making money from using someone else's land. Though many freelance cavers do some work for local authorities, schools, etc.
Worth noting also that some landowners make a charge for instructed groups (or, indeed, ordinary cavers) to go down caves on their - usually calling it a Trespass fee. I, personally, don't have a problem with that.
Also worth noting that some "landowners" are actually business syndicates, sometimes not even British, who make money from the government subsidy for not doing anything with their land except keep it as moorland. They are in totally different class from small landowners or tenant farmers.
There is pressure for young people, as part of their normal education, to be given experience of different outdoor pursuits, one of which is caving. This is most often done through local authority centres or else by local authorities buying in expertise from a caver who has taken the trouble to take some qualification relating to safety issues, conservation, etc.
This is not quite in the same ball park as a freelance cave instructor who makes money by advertising his/her services to take non-cavers underground and is thus effectively making money from using someone else's land. Though many freelance cavers do some work for local authorities, schools, etc.
Worth noting also that some landowners make a charge for instructed groups (or, indeed, ordinary cavers) to go down caves on their - usually calling it a Trespass fee. I, personally, don't have a problem with that.
Also worth noting that some "landowners" are actually business syndicates, sometimes not even British, who make money from the government subsidy for not doing anything with their land except keep it as moorland. They are in totally different class from small landowners or tenant farmers.
TheBitterEnd
Well-known member
Whilst I can see what you are getting at I really don't think there is any distinction between categories you describe and also I don't see what it adds to the debate. Pretty much all local authority centres hire in instructors when they need them, these may well be the same instructors who advertise their services at weekends. Either way if money changes hands (even from the government to a teacher as a salary) then it IS a commercial activity.
Similarly with landowners, just because Jonny foreigner owns the land and shoots grouse on it once a year does not mean it is any different than land farmed by a salt-of-the-earth, trespass fee charging hill farmer.
Similarly with landowners, just because Jonny foreigner owns the land and shoots grouse on it once a year does not mean it is any different than land farmed by a salt-of-the-earth, trespass fee charging hill farmer.
badger
Active member
this debate got very tedious previously, it is getting tedious again, people making unhelpful remarks, and if some one comes on and says its white graham comes back its black. its boring. as it stands bca are in talks with natural England, no one knows what the outcome of those talks will be. so whats the point of saying this or that until we know an official response.
here is what I do know, I was having a conversation with someone I know but had not seen for quite a few years, he was then a highly respected solicitor, however he is now a barrister, so I dropped Dinah rose's name into the conversation, his response was that if she has ventured an opinion those in power (NE and Defra) would take that opinion very seriously, now I know grahm is going to come back with what was the brief etc, but my friend did offer that she would not have made an opinion without having information from both sides. Now I have no idea to what info she was given, I also do not know what discussions between the bca and Ne have been.
so instead if this negative tit for tat why not lets wait until we have the answers from the discussions.
here is what I do know, I was having a conversation with someone I know but had not seen for quite a few years, he was then a highly respected solicitor, however he is now a barrister, so I dropped Dinah rose's name into the conversation, his response was that if she has ventured an opinion those in power (NE and Defra) would take that opinion very seriously, now I know grahm is going to come back with what was the brief etc, but my friend did offer that she would not have made an opinion without having information from both sides. Now I have no idea to what info she was given, I also do not know what discussions between the bca and Ne have been.
so instead if this negative tit for tat why not lets wait until we have the answers from the discussions.
