Knot pass (free hanging)

Isolate in a butterfly for me. Clipping point available in the loop and it prevents the double fisherman's getting so tight it is hard or impossible to undo. You also only have to jump your kit the width of the butterfly during the changeover, not past 2 separate knots and the inevitable small gap between them.
 
I prefer the top half of the double fisherman's to be a capuchin knot (or half a double fisherman's on a byte). Then thread the lower rope through the middle and complete the double fisherman's as normal.

So you end up with a double fisherman's with a clip in loop built in.

NB: The capuchin knot must be on the top rope so that any weight tightens the whole knot rather than pulling it apart
 
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Like Pete says
I go for double fisherman's and alpine butterfly that into a loop. Both knots are fairly idiot proof and well known (easily checkable by others).

Apart from it's something I'm very familiar with and could tie reliably in pitch darkness.... You pass and alpine butterfly which is a very compact knot, got my graphic design team to make this image, no expense spared

Every inch helps especially on descent so you don't go to sit on the decender and still be tight to your ascender and have to stand up and do it again. I advise using thicker rope than the picture, that's a bit too lightweight 😆
 
I remember a big thread on this in the past, with some detractions for the Butterfly addition, which I can't remember now.
If I'm pre-tying the knot I go for the Bfly and DFm
If I find myself on a rope and needing to get a rope attached, I prefer the capuchin as I think it's a little faster to tie as the knot I tie in the end of a rope to stop abseiling of it is a capuchin to speed up a rope join if I needed to.
 
I currently use a fig 8 on the bight on the end of the top rope and rethread this with the lower rope. It's a big knot to pass but not that difficult, plus it's still relatively easy to untie.

I like the compact size of the Alpine Butterfly though, I'll have to try it.
 
Another vote from me for the Capuchin Knot. I was impressed by this after seeing a demonstration by Dave Elliot some years ago - much easier to tie on a second rope securely with convenient loop to clip into, while hanging on a too short one.
 
Second vote for Figure 8 on a bight, rethreaded with the left over tail of the lower knot tied in a stopper on the upper rope. Though I do try not to have pass a knot, but it happens.
 
Another vote for alpine and d/fishermans for me... Very compact and absolutely say with a backup... Doesn't take long once you have learnt to tie an alpine this way either...
 
Ian Ball said:
Yes it matters a lot
Click to expand...
I guess it’s worth expanding that the bigger the difference the more it matters. I’d be inclined to think (no statistical basis) that you’d be absolutely fine joining 9mm and 10mm (I’d guess the two most frequently used rope diameters) but you would probably encounter issues of joining 8mm and thicker 10.5/11mm stuff
 
Different diameters wouldn't be a problem with double fisherman's and alpine butterfly - worst case scenario the loop might disappear!
 
mikem said:
Reef knots are the most (in)famous example, which is why sheet bends are recommended instead
Click to expand...

I can see that a sheet bend would take ropes of different diameter, and be easy to untie.

Who are the people recommending this?

Thanks
 
As far as I'm aware, very little research has been done on joining ropes of different diameters in caving, presumably because most people have a particular design they like and generally stick with. Above is just a general example of a knot that slips with different sizes and the usual solution.
 
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