Ladders are sooo 1970s - Re: Advice on Caves
- Thread starter Hammy
- Start date
tim.rose2
Active member
Two of us have, however there's not that much use for them down South where we do 99 % of our caving. A couple of 10m ladders is a much better investment for Portland / Devon, Mendip & Wales.
Here lies the start of another topic I don't remember being discussed on this forum before..... Ladders or SRT?
cap n chris
Well-known member
"Daaahn Saaaaf" SRT does indeed exist at such places as Pooooth Dooofun, Pant More, Slaughter, Star, Throop, Rhino, Hunters, Spider and more (happy for others to add to t'list).
cap n chris
Well-known member
The suspicion is that a large proportion of ladder use is done without a line, thus making it a fast and simple method of negotiating vertical obstacles and hence why it still remains a commonplace technique. Dragging additional harnesses and rope around would certainly diminish the popularity of ladders.
I think that cap 'n chris has hit the nail on the head here ? if every member of a party is happy to climb whatever pitches they encounter on ladders without a life-line, then laddering is probably quicker (and easier, at least on the short pitches we're presumably talking about) than SRT. But as soon as you factor in safety ropes, then SRT starts to win out.
I remember three of us rigging pitch in a tree, about 50 feet up, with ladders and line then with SRT. OK, it's an artificial situation, but given the plethora of bolts these days, it probably isn't too unrealistic in terms of availability of belay points ? bolts or branches. We timed ourselves to rig, get down, get back up and pack up the gear. SRT was significantly quicker.
I remember three of us rigging pitch in a tree, about 50 feet up, with ladders and line then with SRT. OK, it's an artificial situation, but given the plethora of bolts these days, it probably isn't too unrealistic in terms of availability of belay points ? bolts or branches. We timed ourselves to rig, get down, get back up and pack up the gear. SRT was significantly quicker.
Joe90
Member
I am SRT capable to standard accepted somewhere in the world 
I guess some people might argue that I'm not. But I can do SRT.
That doesn't mean I am above ladders and believe they have no place. I quite like them and think they are very useful in certain situations and caves, especially when dealing with people not so capable/confident with SRT.
Yes SRT may well be faster on big pitches, I wouldn't bother rigging the main drop into seventh hole on ladders because I would be stupid to do so as its 112m free hanging. I would however take one into Khaf Thary for the one and only vertical part which is about 4m. I don't think it would be worth carrying a rope and my SRT kit for two and a half hours to the cave entrance then all the way in for that short of a climb.
Maybe I am wrong in doing this?
It appears that some people take there use of SRT as some sort of elitism over anybody who considers ladders as an asset? Maybe I'm getting that wrong too?
Ropes good, Ladders good
I guess some people might argue that I'm not. But I can do SRT.That doesn't mean I am above ladders and believe they have no place. I quite like them and think they are very useful in certain situations and caves, especially when dealing with people not so capable/confident with SRT.
Yes SRT may well be faster on big pitches, I wouldn't bother rigging the main drop into seventh hole on ladders because I would be stupid to do so as its 112m free hanging. I would however take one into Khaf Thary for the one and only vertical part which is about 4m. I don't think it would be worth carrying a rope and my SRT kit for two and a half hours to the cave entrance then all the way in for that short of a climb.
Maybe I am wrong in doing this?
It appears that some people take there use of SRT as some sort of elitism over anybody who considers ladders as an asset? Maybe I'm getting that wrong too?
Ropes good, Ladders good
Alex
Well-known member
Ladders I think have thier place in Mendips such as Swildons and those short single pitches if in large groups as the amount of gear per person would be far less. On my own or with a couple of us, I would find it less of a hassle to drag my SRT kit in to do county then to drag a bulky ladder through there instead. With SRT I can just leave my SRT gear at the bottom and tie it to the rope if I am not coming out that way. (provided no one knicks it!)
But there are other unusual situations where I have found ladders useful like the time I lost my SRT gear in Hammer, I could not ab down the pitch as my descneder crabs etc where in a rift below the pitch, ladder or freeclimb was my only option.
Also ladders can be useful on surface explorations if you have lots of small holes to drop as you are not crawling through a tight passage with the ladder I imagine one short ladder would way less then a full SRT kit and the rope.
So every club should have about 10m of ladders, just don't expect to use them that much.
But there are other unusual situations where I have found ladders useful like the time I lost my SRT gear in Hammer, I could not ab down the pitch as my descneder crabs etc where in a rift below the pitch, ladder or freeclimb was my only option.
Also ladders can be useful on surface explorations if you have lots of small holes to drop as you are not crawling through a tight passage with the ladder I imagine one short ladder would way less then a full SRT kit and the rope.
So every club should have about 10m of ladders, just don't expect to use them that much.
langcliffe
Well-known member
Alex said:
I just love these definitive statements. The guru has spoken....
Personally, I always ladder County if going nowhere else in the system that requires gear - whether by myself or with other people. I don't find carrying one ladder and tether any more hassle than carrying a rope bag, and I find it quicker than having to put on, take off, put on, and take off personal SRT gear.
langcliffe
Well-known member
I suspect (although I may well be wrong) that Alex meant 'weigh' rather then 'way'.
