Main chamber vs Titan
- Thread starter Samouse1
- Start date
andrewmcleod
Well-known member
Also there is no clear free hang from the main shaft entrance to the floor. The 'main shaft' route drops most of 10m then traverses a few metres to (just) miss Birkbeck's Ledge, so the pitch itself is only about 90m or less, whereas I'm told you can do Dihedral without the deviations or rebelays (if you don't mind drowning) which may/may not be a larger pitch? I haven't done Dihedral (only the main shaft route) so I don't know which is actually the bigger (possible) pitch...
langcliffe
Well-known member
Alex said:
You may well be right, but I don't know of any attempt to measure the depth of Vulcan with the same accuracy as Pitlamp's measurement of the depth of Jib Tunnel, so I really don't think we have sufficient data.
Fulk said:
I thought Dihedral ?direct? was ?Jib?
I have done it quite a few times but only when there is a ? chair? waiting at the bottom.
Last year at the winch set up We went down in ? normal? water levels and was really wet lower down. Far wetter than previous years in similar water levels.
I think getting back up would have been extremely unlikely.
Fantastic pitch to do occasionally.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
I just got back in from caving, so missed the discussion above until now.
I can offer a few words that may help.
Firstly, the accurate measurement of the depth of Gaping Gill was done precisely because of discussions like this. It was measured down Lateral Shaft since this avoids the slightly sloping nature of the Main Shaft. (It's important to use the right names here; "Lateral Shaft" is what you go down from the lip of Jib Tunnel.)
The depth of Gaping Gill isn't "between 98m and 111 m" - it's 98.1 m. (this may alter by a few tens of centimetres between floods of course.)
Quoting lengths of the Dihedral Route (which is only partly within Lateral Shaft) isn't very helpful as it's far from a direct line of descent (although as several folk have intimated, it's a very spectacular route).
As for Vulcan Pot - all detail is in an ULSA Journal. (I could pull this off a shelf but I've a car full of wet gear leaking cave juice, which I need to attend to.) However, it was measured by the Brook brothers (Alan & Dave) when they were at the top of their game of accurately surveying Dales caves. I strongly suspect the figure they give is unlikely to be far out.
It's interesting to look at Martel's original 1895 elevation on Gaping Gill. He gives the depth of Main Shaft as 100 m (the extra 1.9 m perhaps being accounted for by the descent being slightly sloping). The drawing also states 110 m from moor level - I think this is where the oft quoted "365 feet" originates from. People often regurgitate what they've read elsewhere without checking directly or explaining vital detail about where this dimension was measured from.
Martel's dimensions for GG are incredibly accurate, given the ascent turned into something of a battle to survive. I think it's right that many view him as the "father of speleology". His visit was certainly a catalyst to get a lot more people exploring caves in our country.
Mind you, when I'm leading tours in a certain show cave nearby, I can't help berating French visitors sometimes (with tongue in cheek) for Martel nabbing our finest pothole!
I really must go out and deal with all that rancid caving gear . . . .
I can offer a few words that may help.
Firstly, the accurate measurement of the depth of Gaping Gill was done precisely because of discussions like this. It was measured down Lateral Shaft since this avoids the slightly sloping nature of the Main Shaft. (It's important to use the right names here; "Lateral Shaft" is what you go down from the lip of Jib Tunnel.)
The depth of Gaping Gill isn't "between 98m and 111 m" - it's 98.1 m. (this may alter by a few tens of centimetres between floods of course.)
Quoting lengths of the Dihedral Route (which is only partly within Lateral Shaft) isn't very helpful as it's far from a direct line of descent (although as several folk have intimated, it's a very spectacular route).
As for Vulcan Pot - all detail is in an ULSA Journal. (I could pull this off a shelf but I've a car full of wet gear leaking cave juice, which I need to attend to.) However, it was measured by the Brook brothers (Alan & Dave) when they were at the top of their game of accurately surveying Dales caves. I strongly suspect the figure they give is unlikely to be far out.
It's interesting to look at Martel's original 1895 elevation on Gaping Gill. He gives the depth of Main Shaft as 100 m (the extra 1.9 m perhaps being accounted for by the descent being slightly sloping). The drawing also states 110 m from moor level - I think this is where the oft quoted "365 feet" originates from. People often regurgitate what they've read elsewhere without checking directly or explaining vital detail about where this dimension was measured from.
Martel's dimensions for GG are incredibly accurate, given the ascent turned into something of a battle to survive. I think it's right that many view him as the "father of speleology". His visit was certainly a catalyst to get a lot more people exploring caves in our country.
Mind you, when I'm leading tours in a certain show cave nearby, I can't help berating French visitors sometimes (with tongue in cheek) for Martel nabbing our finest pothole!
I really must go out and deal with all that rancid caving gear . . . .
