Making things bigger

[crickleymal]

Just a thought prompted by the thread about the German cave rescue and previous discussions on here.

If a casualty is in a tricky part of a cave with very tight access what would be the view of people on here to enlarging the restriction to get someone out?

 

[Alex]

In the Yorkshire Dales it certainly is done, I know of a number of squeezes such as some of the ones in Pip, that are now "larger". I think the T-shaped rift was enlarged a little on the recent King rescue, though not sure if that's where the cavers normally pass. I have not been down to take a look.

 

[ah147]

Whilst been massively against the enlargement of passage, I can see two situations where it's entirely acceptable:
1) original exploration
2) rescue

All other reasons are a bit more grey


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[adep]

Am sure i would be up for enlarging stuff if i was the casualty on a strecher and it meant the difference between getting out alive and without further injury, so would anybody else in that situation.

Original exploration as well of course

 

[Maj]

I agree - Exploration and rescue.

But just to include a another element:-
How about the pre-drilling of holes, in preparation for a bang to enlarge a squeeze/ease a tight corner should a rescue be required from beyond sometime in the future?


Maj.

 

[cap n chris]

Prior to the ubiquity of lithium drills these may have had a point - in fact IIRC pre-drilled holes already exist in parts of Daren Cilau (happy to be corrected on this btw) - but nowadays it's no great hardship to take in a portable/powerful drill in addition to the other necessities to shave edges off corners. The time saving is negligible.

 

[Bottlebank]

Prior to the ubiquity of lithium drills these may have had a point - in fact IIRC pre-drilled holes already exist in parts of Daren Cilau (happy to be corrected on this btw) - but nowadays it's no great hardship to take in a portable/powerful drill in addition to the other necessities to shave edges off corners. The time saving is negligible.

Agreed. And there is likely to be plenty of time on a rescue for any modification needed.

There's a few practical issues as well, e.g. if the cave is draughting in you're maybe going to want to use caps or plugs and feathers, so what size holes do you pre drill? Different methods need different size holes.

As for the original question I wouldn't envy anyone explaining to the Coroner that you didn't get the casualty out because you didn't want to damage the cave.

 

[bograt]

As for the original question I wouldn't envy anyone explaining to the Coroner that you didn't get the casualty out because you didn't want to damage the cave.

You'd still have to enlarge it to get the corpse out.

 

[Amy]

While I like the idea of "nerd filters" I agree - rescue and exploration are two common "okay to blast it bigger" or even...if it's blowing hole in the ground...open it initially! And I do think if a passage is such that it restricts almost all but the tiniest of caver (your petite little skinny folk) but there is a lot of passage beyond, I think it's fair to widen it so more "average" caver can fit. There is a spot I've never been able to go down and it's litterally one little hanging rock in the way. It's a 90degree downward angle and you need to be quite skinny to do it. Knocking off the tip of the angular rock in the way would open it up for most people, it would take a small sledgehammer and a few whacks is all. But a lot of folk here are vehemently against such passage modification. So it remains only the select few who can go. (Funny how it's the select few that are the ones against it...what are they hiding further on!?)

 

[Antwan]

what are they hiding further on!?)

Moonshine?

 

[graham]

Every time I see this thread I think it's about little blue pills.