Methods of protecting in-situ ropes from unwanted usage

[Fjell]

Ireby at the minute has two ropes in situ at several points.. this photo is how I found it.

Swinsto has traverse lines and a couple of ropes labelled JSMT Ripon.

This does seem to be an increasing trend..

Basically in some of these cases it’s often more dangerous to rig your own rope on top! The likelihood of this older tat failing is still quite small, but I’ve seen lots of reasonably competent cavers get themselves tangled in rigging.

Quite. And then you have to add yours to actually go down. It makes it very problematic for beginners and people learning to rig. This is the tradiest of trade routes and trivial to rig - You can stash your pre-knotted rope in a bag somewhere and show your maillons more love.

JSMT is probably the Army. Joint Services. A quick call to express disappointment to the relevant officer in Ripon from someone sounding official (CNCC) would prob elicit a response and a bollocking for someone. They are good at the latter, it’s the default action in all circumstances.

 

[Pitlamp]

Is there a good reason why Shuttleworth Pot has been left rigged?

There has been an ongoing project in the Witches Cave II sumps for quite some time. It gets delayed by periods of bad vis but is ongoing whenever conditions allow. I'm not 100% certain but this may help answer your question.

(It's not me, incidentally.)

By the way folks, just bear in mind if it wasn't for this kind of longer term, determined, project by cave divers there wouldn't be a Shuttleworth Pot entrance in the first place. Or Notts II. Or Aquamole Pot. Or Ireby II. Etc, etc.

 

[hannahb]

At least one set of ropes in Ireby belongs to a diver who has an ongoing project there, as detailed on another thread.

The ropes in Swinsto have been mentioned on another thread. As mentioned there, unless someone else does so first I will remove them when I get chance and offer to return them to the owner.

 

[rm128]

By the way folks, just bear in mind if it wasn't for this kind of longer term, determined, project by cave divers there wouldn't be a Shuttleworth Pot entrance in the first place. Or Notts II. Or Aquamole Pot. Or Ireby II. Etc, etc.

Quite so, Pit... and I'm sure every caver is extremely grateful for such effort on the part of divers. I certainly am . Speaking as a (mostly) recreational, non-diving caver, though, I wonder if it would be possible for the purpose of such long-term rigging to be publicised more. One suggestion put to me was the use of laminated signage pinned to the start of the rigging, explaining the purpose, installation date and a (very rough) estimate of the duration - even if this is simply "a very long time". It seems to me that this would make it much easier for (most) cavers to put up with the associated in-situ rigging. Without such information, it is impossible to know if the rigging is there for a purpose or is just another example of the increasing trend for leaving rigging in caves for no apparent reason.

 

[Pitlamp]

Yes, there may well be something to be said for that approach rm128.

I have a long term underwater project in the Gaping Gill system and normally use the Bar Pot entrance. But because Bar is so popular with other cavers I tend to reg & derig each time, even though it makes for an extremely heavy load (ropes and cylinders etc) to be carried up the hill, sometimes every other day if the conditions are good.

If it really does make sense to leave it rigged for a few days continuously (which is unusual) I tend to make use of the CNCC booking system to get an idea of others' bookings going forwards, when I make my own bookings. That then becomes a factor in the decision about whether leaving it rigged temporarily is justified.

There's no perfect answer. The divers' plight is a very difficult one, as unnecessary derigging sometimes feels like one step forwards, two steps back. Most cave divers are only too aware of the massive help they often receive from non diving cavers, so wouldn't want to inconvenienece these heroes generally, by leaving caves rigged unnecessarily.

 

[cap n chris]

Ireby at the minute has two ropes in situ at several points.. this photo is how I found it.

Swinsto has traverse lines and a couple of ropes labelled JSMT Ripon.

This does seem to be an increasing trend..

Basically in some of these cases it’s often more dangerous to rig your own rope on top! The likelihood of this older tat failing is still quite small, but I’ve seen lots of reasonably competent cavers get themselves tangled in rigging.

Whoever did the red can rig really neatly..

 

[JAA]

If and when I have a look at Juniper Gulf (which won’t be until next year now, if any one wants to go first good luck and enjoy) I’ve discussed with the CNCC placing a notice onto the CNCC website so that folks are aware they may encounter some rigging.
As Pitlamp put it, it’s very hard to be able to make a concerted effort somewhere like that if you’d also have to keep rigging it as well as ferrying in and out heavy things. Peoples patience and understanding really is appreciated by folk doing projects!

 

[Benfool]

Is there a good reason why Shuttleworth Pot has been left rigged?

Shuttleworth is rigged for ongoing diving projects. That should be pretty obvious from the amount of kit that's down there. Please don't f*** with the rigging, although we're happy for people to use it.

B

 

[FionaH]

I would second the use of labels saying that rigging was permanent for ongoing diving projects and if it can be used - in fact last time I was in Shuttleworth, I met you there, Ben, and I didn't know it was permanent rigging, so I used my time rigging down and briefly delaying you guys from leaving!

 

[Fulk]

I'd just like to say that I have great admiration for cave divers and their exploits; it takes more guts and determination than I've got to swim off into submerged passages (especially the narrow, constricted UK ones). Also, having, on odd occasions, carried equipment underground for divers I can appreciate that if you've got a diving project underway at the bottom of a cave then you might well want to leave it rigged. So I apologise to anyone whom I've annoyed / upset / pissed off over this matter.