Mine Rescue Tragedy
- Thread starter Peter Burgess
- Start date
AndyF
New member
Hatstand said:AndyF said:
I don't remember service in the Fire Brigade being compulsory???
What i mean is that where a situation demands action that may be risky, courageous or...god help us...break H&S guidelines, the scene commander calls for volunteers to do whatever is needed, like go down a hole on a winch.
langcliffe
Well-known member
I'm not convinced the new HSE Guidelines are relevant to the original incident, which from the reports did not seem to be about the safety of the fire service staff:
"A senior fire officer at the scene admitted that crews could only listen to her cries for help, after she fell down the 60ft shaft, because regulations said their lifting equipment could not be used on the public."
"A senior fire officer at the scene admitted that crews could only listen to her cries for help, after she fell down the 60ft shaft, because regulations said their lifting equipment could not be used on the public."
Read the last paragraph here /http://www.kilmarnockstandard.co.uk/ayrshire-news/news-east-ayrshire/kilmarnock-news/2010/05/07/alison-hume-fai-may-hear-more-evidence-81430-26380400/
So not all of the officers played to the 'rules' but after months to consider Mr Stewart appears to have preferred she suffered alone.
Fire Cheifs oppose a new inquiry.
http://www.kilmarnockstandard.co.uk/ayrshire-news/news-east-ayrshire/kilmarnock-news/2010/06/04/accident-inquiry-move-is-opposed-81430-26567394/
I wonder why?
It seems the defence of 'Doing the best you can in the circumstances given' - which has been enshrined in case law - is not seen as a option. Or is it that this defence does not apply to statutory services?
Jopo
So not all of the officers played to the 'rules' but after months to consider Mr Stewart appears to have preferred she suffered alone.
Fire Cheifs oppose a new inquiry.
http://www.kilmarnockstandard.co.uk/ayrshire-news/news-east-ayrshire/kilmarnock-news/2010/06/04/accident-inquiry-move-is-opposed-81430-26567394/
I wonder why?
It seems the defence of 'Doing the best you can in the circumstances given' - which has been enshrined in case law - is not seen as a option. Or is it that this defence does not apply to statutory services?
Jopo
Bob Mehew
Well-known member
Just picked up on this - wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-10837451
Peter Burgess
New member
I invite those who considered emotive responses inappropriate when this topic was started to tell us what they think now.
Edit - I see Graham already has. Good man.
Edit - I see Graham already has. Good man.
Peter Burgess
New member
Yes he certainly should be admired for speaking plainly. It was probably easier for him now he has retired.
Health and safety? Risk assessments? Who in their right mind could listen to that poor woman at the bottom of a shaft pleading for help and say 'sorry we've had to do a risk assessment and we're not allowed to use the perfectly adequate rescue equipment we have right here'.
Those in charge should be sacked with no pensions, Mr Bowman should come out of retirement and run the organisation the way it should be.
Those in charge should be sacked with no pensions, Mr Bowman should come out of retirement and run the organisation the way it should be.
Peter Burgess
New member
cap n chris
Well-known member
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15739209
Selected bits:
"The inquiry said fire crews were not fully familiar with rescue equipment".
She was found by her daughter, and emergency services were called to the scene at about 02:15. The mother-of-two was eventually freed by mountain rescue experts at about 07:42 and was "profoundly hypothermic" and in a critical condition having suffered a pneumothorax, broken ribs and a broken sternum. Mrs Hume suffered caridac arrest while being brought to the surface and later died in Crosshouse Hospital, Kilmarnock."
"It said Strathclyde Police and Strathclyde Fire and Rescue had an "inadequate knowledge... of the range of potential rescue resources available to assist in a rescue operation" and that there had been a "failure to communicate with these resources".
Cynics out there will be unsurprised to hear that this latter state of affairs continues in parts of the UK even now.
Selected bits:
"The inquiry said fire crews were not fully familiar with rescue equipment".
She was found by her daughter, and emergency services were called to the scene at about 02:15. The mother-of-two was eventually freed by mountain rescue experts at about 07:42 and was "profoundly hypothermic" and in a critical condition having suffered a pneumothorax, broken ribs and a broken sternum. Mrs Hume suffered caridac arrest while being brought to the surface and later died in Crosshouse Hospital, Kilmarnock."
"It said Strathclyde Police and Strathclyde Fire and Rescue had an "inadequate knowledge... of the range of potential rescue resources available to assist in a rescue operation" and that there had been a "failure to communicate with these resources".
Cynics out there will be unsurprised to hear that this latter state of affairs continues in parts of the UK even now.
Bob Mehew
Well-known member
The full findings can be read at http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2011FAI51.html . At least the Sheriff did determine that "The need for continuous assessment of emergency and rescue resources by all rescue and emergency agencies and the capabilities of these resources regularly communicated throughout senior and junior management of each agency.". In other words getting all 999 services to recognise the full range of assets available to them. In this case it seems that the Fire Brigade's planning only recognised the local police force's mountain rescue team.
Cave_Troll
Active member
the report states that blankets and oxygen were provided and she was moved out of the water
cap n chris
Well-known member
