Mystery Photo of Puttrell

[pwhole]

I think the guy with the candle might be Fred Botterill - not that it helps much with this problem.

 

[Jenny P]

The photo is from Picture Sheffield the county archive online site.  I guess we could ask them to do a better scan of the original - Jenny P what do you think?

I thought about this but it appears that if you want a better copy of the photo than the rather poor scan on the Picture Sheffield you have to pay for it.  I think the price for an A4 copy was in excess of ?10 plus postage so it wasn't worth it since what we were trying to do was to identify the site.

On the other hand, if Geof at DPC is able to provide a high quality scan, then we can maybe use that to cmpare sites.

 

[mikem]

It does bear some resemblance to 2nd cave featured in:
http://snapthepeaks.co.uk/peak-district-walks/wolfscote-dale-and-beresford-dale-walk/

 

[Fulk]

I inserted 'Puttrell in a cave' into my search engine and it came up with this book on Amazon. If anybody has access to a copy, there my be a clue inside:

 

[phizz4]

Image of Thirst House Cave circa 1920. https://picturethepast.org.uk/image-library/image-details/poster/dcbm200774/posterid/dcbm200774.html

 

[mikem]

Hasn't changed since then. Struggling to find pictures of the other entrances in Deepdale though.

Thirst House is apparently a corruption of Hob's House, so could be applied to any number of caves (the other one with similar current name is a narrow rift).

 

[AR]

There are photos of various entrances in Chris Heathcote's article from Mining History - https://pdmhs.co.uk/MiningHistory/Bulletin%2015-6%20-%20Lead%20and%20Calcite%20Workings%20near%20Chelmorton,%20Derbyshire.pdf , I've attached a photo of mine of the cave opposite Thirst House.

Thirst House isn't a corruption of Hob's House, the "Thirst" part comes from the old English "Thurse", meaning giant/troll.

 

[mikem]

Okay, related origin then - trolls & goblins etc.

Has anyone looked at my link above to entrance in Dovedale?

 

[phizz4]

I happened to be climbing there on Thursday and, to me, it doesn't fit.

 

[mikem]

Yeah, definitely not Frank 'ith (the first two photos are same hole - or should it be Frank i'th'?), there's one further down the dale that's over half way down the pics, labelled "near Biggin Dale".

From another blog:
https://images.app.goo.gl/XdBJPRGnmGHkpY687

 

[Boy Engineer]

Yeah, definitely not Frank 'ith (the first two photos are same hole - or should it be Frank i'th'?), there's one further down the dale that's over half way down the pics, labelled "near Biggin Dale".

From another blog:
https://images.app.goo.gl/XdBJPRGnmGHkpY687

I think that?s Iron Tors cave.

 

[mikem]

DCA registry doesn't recognize that name - the only thing they show in that area is peasland rock shelter, which looks different in the (interior) shot on Peak District caving info...

N.B. The guidebook confirms they are same thing.

 

[Boy Engineer]

DCA registry doesn't recognize that name - the only thing they show in that area is peasland rock shelter, which looks different in the (interior) shot on Peak District caving info...

N.B. The guidebook confirms they are same thing.

I grew up with a Harold Gresley watercolour entitled Iron Tor?s Cave, so you?ll have to blame domestic conditioning.

 

[mikem]

No, it definitely should be an alternate on the registry. Is closest I've seen so far.

 

[Jenny P]

It does bear some resemblance to 2nd cave featured in:
http://snapthepeaks.co.uk/peak-district-walks/wolfscote-dale-and-beresford-dale-walk/

That's what is known as Frank i' th' Rocks Cave, in Dovedale just at the lower end of Wolfscote Dale, and it definitely isn't that.

 

[Jenny P]

I inserted 'Puttrell in a cave' into my search engine and it came up with this book on Amazon. If anybody has access to a copy, there my be a clue inside:

We have a copy in the British Caving Library and someone has already checked this for clues but there are none.

 

[mikem]

That's what is known as Frank i' th' Rocks Cave, in Dovedale just at the lower end of Wolfscote Dale, and it definitely isn't that.

Afraid we've already been through that being the 1st, not 2nd cave (& called Frank 'ith on DCA registry)

 

[Jenny P]

That's what is known as Frank i' th' Rocks Cave, in Dovedale just at the lower end of Wolfscote Dale, and it definitely isn't that.

Afraid we've already been through that being the 1st, not 2nd cave (& called Frank 'ith on DCA registry)

The names of caves in the immediate vicinity of Frank i' th' Rocks Cave, as given in the Derbyshire Cave Registry, need to be sorted because they have been given difference names in the ARCUS record of potential archaeological caves.  This is also referenced in BCRA Cave & Karst Science V.47, (1) - a UBSS article by Palmer & Lee in 1926 began the error by referring to a dig in a cave of that name (it actually wasn't, it was a separate cave further round the outcrop) and Caves of the Peak District perpetuated it.  There are at least 4 caves known here and it's the largest and most obvious, facing the river, which is actually Frank i' th' Rocks Cave.  That's not the one shown in the Puttrell photo and the other 3 entrances in the rock outcrop look nothing like this.  (The others probably need to be referred to as FitR cave 2, 3 and 4, or something similar to distinguish them.)

 

[mikem]

There's already 1, 2 & 3 on there. Pic in question is of peasland rock shelter (aka iron tors cave)

 

[Jenny P]

I don't remember Peasland Rock Shelter (Iron Tors Cave) as looking anything like the Puttrell photo - though I admit it's a long time since I've seen it.

Thinking of where it is on the side of the dale, I can't quite see how you would be able to take the photo from that angle.  Also, I have the inpression that the cave in the Puttrell photo has a larger entrance than Peasland Rock Shelter.