• Black Sheep Diggers presentation - March 29th 7pm

    In the Crown Hotel Middlesmoor the Black Sheep Diggers are going to provide an evening presentation to locals and other cavers.

    We will be highlighting with slides and explanations the explorations we have been doing over the years and that of cave divers plus research of the fascinating world of nearby lead mines.

    Click here for more details

New Deep-Dive Blog – Carabiners Beyond the Basics (Cavers, Rescue Teams & Gear Nerds)

Wow, good job, that's about as comprehensive a guide on carabiners as anyone could reasonably want!

I'm suprised by the justification of industrial applications tending to use steel carabiners because they cost less. I'd always assumed that it was because it's a harder-wearing material, and weight is less of a consideration. Maybe we'll start seeing student cavers jangling around the Dales heavily laden with steel crabs!
 
aricooperdavis said:
Wow, good job, that's about as comprehensive a guide on carabiners as anyone could reasonably want!

I'm suprised by the justification of industrial applications tending to use steel carabiners because they cost less. I'd always assumed that it was because it's a harder-wearing material, and weight is less of a consideration. Maybe we'll start seeing student cavers jangling around the Dales heavily laden with steel crabs!
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Ta very much!

Yeah we have found it's a bit of both: lower cost (especially in bulk) and of course greater durability.
 
The guide doesn't explain why few cavers use wiregates for their non locking krabs, especially considering mud (not just because they're often lighter, maybe cheaper and some nerdy theory about gate flutter).
 
Interesting thought, steel rusting is easily spotted and I know what I'm doing when it comes to binning a thinning carabiner or indeed maillon.
However I've not got the same confidence in an aluminum alloy carabiner assessment, at all in fact, I wonder if those carabiners in the cupboard that I've had since the 90s are anywhere near the rated performance.
 
Thanks, a useful reference. I don't know if it's my phone or if others see the same, but where there's a photo on the left and a description on the right, the edges of the photo can be cropped, the left edge being off the screen and/or the right edge hidden by the text.
 
Good stuff. Hook (I call them Fish Hooks) carabiners are totally shit for caving, imo, and I won't have them anywhere near me. Love Grivel Double Gates though, Omnis - yay!*, but dislike triacts/twistlocks.... and I absolutely will not have anything ever to do with DMM steel HMSs ever again - they break the moment any clay gets within a mile of them. After the third identical breakage/failure DMM wrote back to me to say they are not designed for caving and shouldn't be used underground. All snapgates are lethal, so nope. Good article; perhaps a Cave Specific one with big red crayon Xs through the unsuitable ones would be a useful reference.

* But check they're properly closed, properly, visual check from more than one angle. Proper.
 
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Ian Ball said:
However I've not got the same confidence in an aluminum alloy carabiner assessment, at all in fact, I wonder if those carabiners in the cupboard that I've had since the 90s are anywhere near the rated performance.
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I imagine they are fine. If you don't want them we can give them a home (y)
 
Ian Ball said:
Interesting thought, steel rusting is easily spotted and I know what I'm doing when it comes to binning a thinning carabiner or indeed maillon.
However I've not got the same confidence in an aluminum alloy carabiner assessment, at all in fact, I wonder if those carabiners in the cupboard that I've had since the 90s are anywhere near the rated performance.
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An interesting test project, 30+ year old alloys. I imagine you're correct in your presumption. Hunch territory. I'm aware that most manufacturers have concurred that well maintained, unabused metalware technically has no longevity stipulation(s).
 
Fulk said:
They are lighter than steel krabs, but they're not lighter than alloy ones (assuming the reference was to steel MRs).
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The difference in weight between each of my maillons and blue Inglesport alloy krabs is 6g. Assuming a cave with quite a bit of rigging, say 30 maillons/krabs. That's only 180g extra with maillons. But that will almost certainly be split between multiple bags. Say 3 bags, so only 60g extra per bag. Not a lot really.

Long live maillons!
 
rm128 said:
The difference in weight between each of my maillons and blue Inglesport alloy krabs is 6g. Assuming a cave with quite a bit of rigging, say 30 maillons/krabs. That's only 180g extra with maillons. But that will almost certainly be split between multiple bags. Say 3 bags, so only 60g extra per bag. Not a lot really.

Long live maillons!
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Maillon master race!

Chain of five/six maillons hanging from chest harness loops doesn’t interfere with my sit harness. The same number of carabiners would be a nightmare.

Regular cleaning and oiling of maillons is my meditation time 😅
 
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