No smoking in caves?

[oldboy]

Reading the newsdesk item in Descent mag. about club huts and the No Smoking ban set me thinking.

Is a cave now classed as an "enclosed public place" thus making it illegal to smoke underground?
Will cavers caught smoking underground be liable to a £50 fine?
Will cave owners be liable to a £2500 fine if they allow cavers to smoke underground?

Is the fag packet under the helmet to be a thing of the past?
Well I only asked!

 

[Bob Smith]

i only know of one environmental health officer that caves, so even if a cave is (tenuously) covered by this ridiculous law, then when is anyone ever going to get fined? Read the legislation, they are the only people that can enforce it :read:

 

[martinr]

i only know of one environmental health officer that caves, so even if a cave is (tenuously) covered by this ridiculous law, then when is anyone ever going to get fined? Read the legislation, they are the only people that can enforce it :read:

Here we go again.....

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,3906.0.html

 

[wormster]

Oh FFS lets not go there again, how many pages of blether was it last time

 

[cap n chris]

Nine pages.

Admittedly I got it wrong when I wrote (page 7):

"Perhaps also worth reiteration (for the benefit of people who look at words rather than reading them), is the original post in this thread in which I asked the question.... "has the time come for UK NGB/RCCs to adopt a similar stance [with regard to the nationwide smoking ban coming into force in July]?".

This question is based on the timing of a national ban on smoking in enclosed spaces. It seems ENTIRELY timely and RELEVANT to ask the same question with regard to underground locations. People can argue all they like about whether or not the topic is a load of crap but it's easy to imagine plenty of people asking the same question this year, next year and the year after.... "Should people (morally/legally/whatever) smoke underground?".

Perhaps a better approach would be for pro-smoking cavers/mine explorers to come up with a compelling list or coherent rationale explaining why smoking underground is acceptable; failing to convince people of their case could perhaps result in a default "no smoking" conclusion."

Got that bit wrong, didn't I? - it's taken all of three days for someone to ask the very question which I wrote would be asked sooner or later....

 

[martinr]

Well I only asked!

 

[shotlighter]

Does it really matter - what's a few extra leaves & bits of paper going to to do to the average cave? The smoke is minute compared to bang fumes( which no one seems to object to). The "wallpaper" isn't going to go yellow like in a pub 'cause you're only going to get a couple of smokers a week at most in there. Live & let live - a non smoker.

 

[Cookie]

Got that bit wrong, didn't I? - it's taken all of three days for someone to ask the very question which I wrote would be asked sooner or later....

Actually Oldboy asked:

Is a cave now classed as an "enclosed public place" thus making it illegal to smoke underground?
Will cavers caught smoking underground be liable to a £50 fine?
Will cave owners be liable to a £2500 fine if they allow cavers to smoke underground?
Is the fag packet under the helmet to be a thing of the past?

Whereas you asked:

Has the time come for UK NGB/RCCs to adopt a similar stance [with regard to the nationwide smoking ban coming into force in July]?

Seems to me they are completely different questions.  :read:

 

[graham]

Does it really matter - what's a few extra leaves & bits of paper going to to do to the average cave? The smoke is minute compared to bang fumes( which no one seems to object to). The "wallpaper" isn't going to go yellow like in a pub 'cause you're only going to get a couple of smokers a week at most in there. Live & let live - a non smoker.

I suspect that no one objects to bang fumes because they can understand why they might be found in a cave. There is no good reason for tobacco fumes to be found in a cave.

 

[cap n chris]

Seems to me they are completely different questions.  :read:

... but with similar practical effect/considerations; however, I'm thankful Oldboy's posed it in better terms that my original vague way.

So, does anyone know the answer to Oldboy's question?

_______________

BTW here's another example of two completely different questions:

Would you like me to make you a cup of tea?
Would you like to make yourself a cup of tea?

 

[Bob Smith]

I suspect that no one objects to bang fumes because they can understand why they might be found in a cave. There is no good reason for tobacco fumes to be found in a cave.

'cept when someone dying for a crafty fag!

 

[Peter Burgess]

Smoking should only be permiited underground if clay pipes are being used. Clay pipes are much more useful as archaeological finds than dog ends.

 

[wormster]

Smoking should only be permiited underground if clay pipes are being used. Clay pipes are much more useful as archaeological finds than dog ends.

ohhhh don't tempt me :tease:

 

[Wolfart]

Are they going to supply smoking shelters in large chambers?

 

[menacer]

Would you like me to make you a cup of tea?

Well... as your offering I guess we'd all like you to make us a cup of tea.
For practicality purposes I am prepared to wait till the next CSCC meeting in September.
Dont forget to bring some milk...

 

[curlycaver]

How many people actually smoke underground? Surely it would have to be quite a dry cave?

 

[Walrus]

How many people actually smoke underground? Surely it would have to be quite a dry cave?

Oh no, its perfectly possible to smoke in a very wet cave. Just not while your underwater, obviously.

 

[gus horsley]

How many people actually smoke underground? Surely it would have to be quite a dry cave?

If it's too dry you could suffer from spontaneous combustion!

 

[digscaves]

Looking for a grade 4 challenge?(with smoke)

A group of us are intending to go down to Mendip to do an audio survey of GB.
The equipment we are using was recently tested in GG it’s a Russian piece of kit called AUDAR this works on a similar principle to LIDAR equipment used in GG previously, but being from the old Eastern bloc is much cheaper(and heavier). It uses AUdio instead of LIght.

The principle of operation is that sound waves which travel at approx 1000ft/sec are emitted by a series of accurately timed small pyrotechnic charges. These do smoke a bit and tend to smell strongly of ammonia. The arrival of the primary wave front and subsequent reflections are recorded using several digital recorders. By manipulation electronically using a special DSP an electronic picture of the passage can be formed.

The volume of the chamber can then be easily worked out
The output of this exercise should determine once and for all that GG is bigger than GB!

We just need a few people to help carry our equipment, and guide us down there then we’ll have it sorted. As we are from Yorkshire, we will of course expect you to buy the beer afterwards.


Cheers.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Cue Graham ..........