North Manchester Caving Groups

[mikem]

I was a member of the LCCC whilst at school.

Of note is the fact that it was originally "Lancashire Caving and Climbing Club" but much more recently it seems to have changed its name to "Lancashire Climbing and Caving Club".

They are still listed on UKClimbing under the first name (this would have been some time ago):
"Caving meets for the troglodyte minority (NOT compulsory!) occur every fortnight."

& posted as recently as 2009:
"Have a number of folks who take part in both.
Next trips are
Deaths Head/Big Meanie exchange - Sun 29/3
Little Hull Pot - Sun 12/4
New Goyden Pot - Sun 26/4
All 3 are SRT trips though so I guess for folks experienced with the necessary skills/equipment"

Were still using the former website in 2013 (links take you to the new website):
https://www.shepton.org.uk/calendar/away/north-wales-fri-23082013

In 2018, the CNCC contacted them (amongst others), as had not been to any meetings in the previous 4 years:
"Lancashire Caving and Climbing Club: Confirmed that their club only ever really had a few active caving members, and caving activities have now ceased. The representative said he is now a member of RRCPC and is kept well informed by their representative."

Journals don't seem to come up that often (as some being offered for silly prices), but, unlike some other climbing clubs, they do appear to have kept their records (p.3):
http://www.flarchives.co.uk/uploads/1/9/7/5/19752675/news_from_the_archives_edition_171__jun_2016_.pdf
& https://lancashireclimbingandcavingclub.co.uk/history/

Apparently the Wessex have their 1986 Bulletin, which only "contains a report on diving in the Bahamanian
Blue Holes as part of the Operation Raleigh programme", of caving interest.

 

[Jenny P]

I have now had a chance to check the BCL copies of the Lancashire Caving and Climbing Club Journal from 1953 to 1974 plus a single issue for 2002.  Vol. 1, No. 1 for 1953 has a list of members but they are all given in the format A. Bloggs or C. Dennis (Miss) so can't be related to the Christian names and nicknames associated with the Album photos.  There are around 70 members and the addresses given for them do include some addresses in or near north Manchester including several from Oldham but no record of Elizabeth Emmens or Albert Wilkinson.  (Although Betty and Albert had got married in 1952 and Albert had also gone to Peru in 1952 so it's likely that they wouldn't still have been on the list in 1953.)

We also have one single copy of an LCCC News Bulletin, Vol. 1, No.7, Spring 1948 but this is almost entirely concerned with climbing and mountaineering trips except for one item about the caves in South Wales.  Again, almost all references to people are in the format "initial, surname".  The only Christian names which appear are: George, Lionel, Lon [sic], Dan, Hubert, Mavis, Keith and Iris.  The Potholing Meets secretary is given as Miss D. Barron.

Somehow the style of the writing is rather "up market" and doesn't seem quite consistent with the first name and nickname style of the photo album.

I have checked again and we don't have any copies of North Manchester Caving Club publications so it's impossible to check the album against these.

 

[mikem]

As you noted before, NMCC Journal 1 was 1969, so the club may well not have existed in 1950s.

"The Black and Tans from Manchester used the [Cioch Climbing Club - Stoney Middleton] hut for dossing and occasionally paid their fees." during the 1960s - so nicknames may have been more consistent with their members, but they don't seem to have left much in the way of written records...

Alternatively, John Warburton just did a Berger trip with the Rucksack Club & they've been going since 1902:
"Its been over 30 years since i was in the Berger, with a large club team of Rucksack,Karabiner,and Black and Tans cavers":
https://rucksackclub.org/2018/11/10/gouffre-berger-expedition/

The Karabiner Club were also caving at about the right time:
https://www.karabiner.org/articles/viewer.php?aid=2976

Not that Albert Wilkinson comes up in relation to any of them!

 

[langcliffe]

Resurrecting an ancient subject, but I would just like to close the loop for completeness...

We have established that the name of the north Manchester caving group was the "16th Middleton Scout and Rover Group". I understand that the Rover program was originated by The Boy Scouts Association to provide a program for young men who had grown up beyond the age range of the Boy Scouts. The chap involved, Albert Wilkinson, was about 21 when he was involved in an incident in Lower Long Churn, so that fits.

https://archives.bcra.org.uk/archive.php?level=document&collection=wilkinson&document=miscellaneous&item=0

 

[Jenny P]

The Log Book containing the flooding incident report was scanned for us by the daughter of Albert Wilkinson and his wife Betty, who found it in her Aunt's loft - presumably passed on by her Mother. 

It appears there is one member of the "16th Middleton Scout and Rover Group" still alive at the age of 93!  Catherine is now on the look out for more Log Books in Aunts' lofts - so there may be more to come of the Group's doings.