Observations on the CNCC AGM

[Simon Wilson]

Before the 2014 CNCC AGM Johnny Latimer announced his intention to stand for election as the Access Officer. At the AGM he was told by Les Sykes that he could not stand because the Access Officer was not an elected post but a co-opted post.

In the minutes of the September 2010 committee meeting the post is referred to as ?Access and Conservation Officer? when Marion Dunn resigned from the post. http://www.cncc.org.uk/documents/committee17092010.pdf

The creation of two new offices, one a co-opted post of Access Officer and one an elected post of Conservation Officer, would need a change of the constitution and this has never happened. At some point the wording of the constitution has been changed to say ?Conservation Officer? but this has been done arbitrarily. This is yet another example of the flagrant disregard of the constitution.
http://www.cncc.org.uk/about/constitution.php

It was very much the wish of the EPC that the SGM should go ahead because we intended to make several proposals. One of those proposals was to make the crucial post of Access Officer an elected post. I let the CNCC officers know about our intentions to make several proposals and I strongly suspect that is one of the reasons why they decided to cancel the meeting.

 

[kay]

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In the minutes of the September 2010 committee meeting the post is referred to as ?Access and Conservation Officer? when Marion Dunn resigned from the post. http://www.cncc.org.uk/documents/committee17092010.pdf

I understand that the post is "Conservation and Access Officer" following the model of the BCA.
When Marion Dunn was elected as Conservation and Access Officer  she made it clear she did not wish to carry out the Access Officer side of the role, and so an Access Officer was coopted. (The Constitution allows the cooption of non-voting officers)

When Marion resigned, and Andrew Hinde was elected, he too did not wish to carry out the Access Officer role, so again an Access Officer was coopted.

When Andrew resigns, the new elected Conservation and Access officer may wish to carry out both roles, in which case it won't be necessary to coopt an Access officer

The creation of two new offices, one a co-opted post of Access Officer and one an elected post of Conservation Officer, would need a change of the constitution

No it wouldn't -the Constitution already allows for the appointment of coopted officers. It would need a change of constitution to separate permanently the Constitution and Access posts, preferably into two elected posts, and that's something I personally would find logical. Someone else may well tell me why it's a bad idea!

At some point the wording of the constitution has been changed to say ?Conservation Officer? but this has been done arbitrarily. This is yet another example of the flagrant disregard of the constitution.

No, it's  just careless wording. People who volunteer their time for CNCC are not superhuman. They make mistakes like the rest of us.

It was very much the wish of the EPC that the SGM should go ahead because we intended to make several proposals. One of those proposals was to make the crucial post of Access Officer an elected post.

But that wouldn't be possible under the Constitution, surely? The SGM was agreed for a specific purpose - to bring new business into it would need the agreement of 10 full members clubs? As I understand the Constitution anyway. And of course you can still persuade 9 other clubs to ask for a SGM, if you feel that's the best way to go about changing the Constitution. Personally, I'd prefer CNCC to spend a few months consulting, and then make all necessary changes to the Constitution in one go.
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[Bob Mehew]

As I recall, the Chair at the AGM stated that the post of Access Office is up for re-co-option (if that is a real word) at the next committee meeting, just like Minutes Secretary.  Or am I wrong?  I await the draft AGM minutes with interest.

 

[Bottlebank]

It was very much the wish of the EPC that the SGM should go ahead because we intended to make several proposals. One of those proposals was to make the crucial post of Access Officer an elected post.

I can think of two Earby members who felt that way, and a lot that didn't.

Why is crucial that the post of access officer is an elected post? The access officer doesn't have a vote, and the only reason I can think of for this would be to remove the current access officer, but you can achieve that anyway by proposing that the committee co-opt a new access officer. Much quicker and no constitutional change needed. You could do that at any committee meeting via an advance proposal or under AOB.

 

[kay]

As I recall, the Chair at the AGM stated that the post of Access Office is up for re-co-option (if that is a real word) at the next committee meeting, just like Minutes Secretary.

Yes, that's correct.

Does anyone want to be Minutes Secretary? Johnny Latimer very kindly took the minutes at the AGM but I don't think he wants to be Minutes Sec permanently, so the post is open to offers.

It involves:

Some time before the next meeting is due, send out a draft agenda and ask everyone to submit their reports, and any items they want added to the agenda
Circulate the reports when they come in.
Attend the meeting and record what happens
Write up the Minutes and arrange for them to be put on the website

 

[kay]

Why is crucial that the post of access officer is an elected post? The access officer doesn't have a vote, and the only reason I can think of for this would be to remove the current access officer, but you can achieve that anyway by proposing that the committee co-opt a new access officer. Much quicker and no constitutional change needed. You could do that at any committee meeting via an advance proposal or under AOB.

Preferably via advance proposal. I would expect that many club reps would want to discuss it with their clubs before voting, so if a new candidate were introduced without warning at the meeting, the decision might need to be postponed to the next meeting to allow time for consultation.

 

[Smiley Alan]

    I would expect that many club reps would want to discuss it with their clubs before voting, so if a new candidate were introduced without warning at the meeting, the decision might need to be postponed to the next meeting to allow time for consultation.

ive been in lots  of clubs over the years and  never have i ever read or herd any thing from a club rep asking mebers about any  topic .

does this  ever happen ?

 

[Simon Wilson]

    I would expect that many club reps would want to discuss it with their clubs before voting, so if a new candidate were introduced without warning at the meeting, the decision might need to be postponed to the next meeting to allow time for consultation.

ive been in lots  of clubs over the years and  never have i ever read or herd any thing from a club rep asking mebers about any  topic .

does this  ever happen ?

In the EPC there are continual discussions and of course if anyone strongly disagrees with the actions of our club rep they can bring it up at the AGM when the rep has to stand for re-election.

Please tell us what clubs you have been in where the CNCC rep did not consult the members.

Simon Wilson, EPC CNCC Representative.

 

[Simon Wilson]

I understand that the post is "Conservation and Access Officer" following the model of the BCA.
When Marion Dunn was elected as Conservation and Access Officer  she made it clear she did not wish to carry out the Access Officer side of the role, and so an Access Officer was coopted. (The Constitution allows the cooption of non-voting officers)

When Marion resigned, and Andrew Hinde was elected, he too did not wish to carry out the Access Officer role, so again an Access Officer was coopted.

When Andrew resigns, the new elected Conservation and Access officer may wish to carry out both roles, in which case it won't be necessary to coopt an Access officer

The post is clearly called "Access and Conservation Officer" and there has been no constitutional amendment to change it. The committee could co-opt an assistant to either part of the job. Nevertheless, the elected post remains as "Access and Conservation Officer" and it is wrong that Johnny Latimer was prevented from standing for election to that post.

Simon Wilson, EPC CNCC Representative.

 

[graham]

Somewhat off-topic, I accept, but does anybody else find the intentional use of 12 point type, instead of the default 10 pt somewhat akin to the persistent use of capitals?

I find it off putting, which is annoying as I have sympathy with Simon's position on this thread, if not on the other one.

 

[Bottlebank]

Somewhat off-topic, I accept, but does anybody else find the intentional use of 12 point type, instead of the default 10 pt somewhat akin to the persistent use of capitals?

I find it off putting, which is annoying as I have sympathy with Simon's position on this thread, if not on the other one.

I find it irritating too, and I agree Johnny or anyone else should have been allowed to stand for a co-opted position at the meeting, but Kay has a point and had Simon got it on the agenda in advance it would have helped. Hopefully he'll sort this out by getting it onto the agenda for the next meeting.

 

[kay]

ive been in lots  of clubs over the years and  never have i ever read or herd any thing from a club rep asking mebers about any  topic .

does this  ever happen ?

Yes, frequently - I've been a member of clubs that consult, and I've heard reps report the result of consultation within their clubs

Nevertheless, the elected post remains as "Access and Conservation Officer" and it is wrong that Johnny Latimer was prevented from standing for election to that post.

Eh?? I can see where you're coming from, but neither Johnny nor anyone else put forward an alternative nomination when Andrew Hinde said he was willing to stand.

I agree Johnny or anyone else should have been allowed to stand for a co-opted position at the meeting,

It's the committee who have the power to co-opt which is presumably why it's done at a committee meeting not at the AGM. Maybe in future the CNCC should hold a committee meeting directly after the AGM, so that co-option can be done immediately?

 

[martinm]

Maybe in future the CNCC should hold a committee meeting directly after the AGM, so that co-option can be done immediately?

Which is exactly what DCA do, probably for similar reasons, Regards, Mel.

 

[Simon Wilson]

Nevertheless, the elected post remains as "Access and Conservation Officer" and it is wrong that Johnny Latimer was prevented from standing for election to that post.

Eh?? I can see where you're coming from, but neither Johnny nor anyone else put forward an alternative nomination when Andrew Hinde said he was willing to stand.

I have been using 12 point because I find 10 a little difficult to read. I always use 12 when I'm word processing. Now that somebody has objected I'll stick to the default even though I find it irritating.

Kay,
At the AGM there was a lot going on and I wasn't thinking fast enough to object to what was happening. Johnny announced well in advance that he intended to stand for what he thought was an elected post. I think it would have been fair for someone who knew what was going on to explain things to Johnny. Johnny could then have discussed it with Andrew and they might have agreed for Andrew to let Johnny be elected and for Andrew to be co-opted as Conservation Officer.

Since all the committee were present, any co-options could have taken place at the AGM. As it has turned out Les has kept hold of the position that he obviously is very keen to keep hold of and virtually nothing has changed.

As for you saying that the name of the post being changed in the constitution is "just careless wording" I can't prove otherwise so I'll have to accept what you say but I want to see the wording corrected to "Access and Conservation Officer".

 

[dunc]

I have been using 12 point because I find 10 a little difficult to read. I always use 12 when I'm word processing. Now that somebody has objected I'll stick to the default even though I find it irritating.

Off-topic I know; but can't you just use the browsers zoom facility? (would only need a small increase to make it about 12pt size).

 

[Bottlebank]

At the AGM there was a lot going on and I wasn't thinking fast enough to object to what was happening. Johnny announced well in advance that he intended to stand for what he thought was an elected post. I think it would have been fair for someone who knew what was going on to explain things to Johnny. Johnny could then have discussed it with Andrew and they might have agreed for Andrew to let Johnny be elected and for Andrew to be co-opted as Conservation Officer.

Announcing a week or two before on here doesn't really do the job. You're our club rep, get another club rep to second the proposal and get it on the agenda for the next meeting?

 

[kay]

At the AGM there was a lot going on and I wasn't thinking fast enough to object to what was happening. Johnny announced well in advance that he intended to stand for what he thought was an elected post. I think it would have been fair for someone who knew what was going on to explain things to Johnny. Johnny could then have discussed it with Andrew and they might have agreed for Andrew to let Johnny be elected and for Andrew to be co-opted as Conservation Officer.

Announcing a week or two before on here doesn't really do the job. You're our club rep, get another club rep to second the proposal and get it on the agenda for the next meeting?

I'm not really sure what the problem is. If Johnny is still offering to be Access Officer, (and I haven't heard anything to suggest the contrary) he can say so at the Committee Meeting, and the committee can decide to co-opt him if they wish.

 

[graham]

I have been using 12 point because I find 10 a little difficult to read. I always use 12 when I'm word processing. Now that somebody has objected I'll stick to the default even though I find it irritating.

Off-topic I know; but can't you just use the browsers zoom facility? (would only need a small increase to make it about 12pt size).

Yes indeed. Many users seem to be unaware of this degree of flexibility in browsers. It will also change the size of all the (default) replies as well, thus making life easier all round.