OFD fixed aids updates

[cap n chris]

If people wish to engage in original "risky" caving they simply ignore the Safety Installations and free climb things like they did back in the day. Me, I'll use every/all SI going, as "I love caves but don't want to get injured or die in one". Ta. Much appreciate all the efforts people go to in order to make a life of caving that bit longer.

 

[paul]

If people wish to debate fixed aids and safety, please start a separate thread. Moderator comment.

 

[andrewmcleod]

"Resin anchors, on the other hand, are far more plausible. I've not been to OFD3 (at least partly due to the lack of a sensibly safe approach and there still being plenty of other OFD to do) and I'd probably want to focus on safer routes for newer cavers first, but we might get there one day"

The Traverses are a safe approach for a reasonably competent caver. There is an alternative - abseil down then arrange a pull through at the OFDlll end. The walk along the bottom is easy and now the preferred rescue route. All you have to be worried about then is the Maypole Bridge balancing act.

"and I'd probably want to focus on safer routes for newer cavers first, but we might get there one day"

I find this quite chilling. Is this the club that pioneered the route to Smiths Armory by having to first dive Dip Sump? Most of the cave was discovered by divers before Cwm Dwr or Top Entrance existed. There are kilometers of passage which is safe for novices. I am a armchair caver now but would be sad to see OFD become a "beginners" cave

A article about accessing the high level passage above Low's passage can be seen in NL No.5 - available on the SWCC website.

Jopo

I'll continue with this here because it's OFD specific.

I'm not sure if you are trying to argue there _should_ be fixed aids on the route to OFD3 or there shouldn't?
Personally I think it's incredibly unlikely that long traverses will get a line of resin anchors along them; what's far more likely is, for example on the route to OFD3, the route abseiling down and then prusikking back up is far more likely to get anchored one day - I have heard the same suggestion from a number of other people.

Also if there are kilometres of passage which are safe for novices, then isn't quite a big of OFD already a 'beginners' cave? It's a fantastic cave system; it's my favourite cave; but it's not some kilometre-deep Alpine meanderfest and (as you point out) with three entrances there aren't any _really_ hard committing trips (at least not by foreign standards). In many cases, there are excellent safe routes for novices with just one or two sketchy obstacles e.g. the Maypole step (which you can currently belay across using natural threads) or (until recently) the Low's Chain climb which many cavers (particularly shorter ones where bridging is much more difficult) struggled with.

I also do think some cavers confuse 'willingness to take risks' with 'competence'; I certainly choose to climb well below my standard when not attached to anything over a large hole.

 

[andrewmcleod]

Our initial plans (now that Low's Chain is done) are (with one exception) to replace existing anchors.

There are 'official fixed aids' which are either rawlbolts or eyebolts, often singly, which are probably older than I am. Some might be old through-bolts or spits and hangers. These are:
- Crevasse bolts
- Fault Aven bolts
- The bolt holding the chain on the Letterbox (which is an odd one since it's only used to hold a chain).

There are over 'non-official' fixed aids which need work e.g.:
- the Skyhook which doesn't currently work very well as it dates to when it was primarily climbed with ladders. It doesn't get you to the top (so you have to a sketchy climb to the top) and is relying on a fixed SRT rope rather than the old pull-up system. The rope rubs slightly if not used with great care, so the rope (not supplied by SWCC) ends up getting cored.
- the pitch into the Chasm, which (I think) is a single crappy rusty ring hanger with a natural backup further back. Apparently people still use this regularly (I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole).
- the anchors for the Swamp Creek pitch. I haven't done this, but I'm told it's an excellent Yorkshire-type traverse and pitch into the main streamway. I also believe at least one of the spits pulled out last year.
- the abseil from the Bedding Chambers into Gnome Passage. Not a clean hang (at all), so currently only a pull-through but this does get used. Currently a natural backup leading to (I think) a pair of in-situ spits, hangers and maillons. It's a nice pitch though.
- the p8 and p20 pitches in the Great Oxbow series (accessible via the Skyhook). These provide a non-streamway way to Marble Showers without doing the Midnight Traverses. I've done the pitches but not the route from there to Marble Showers; we were instead doing the 7-pitch round trip via the Skyhook, those pitches, Mutiny Junction and Hayden's Dig.

 

[Jopo]

I'll continue with this here because it's OFD specific.

I'm not sure if you are trying to argue there _should_ be fixed aids on the route to OFD3 or there shouldn't?
Personally I think it's incredibly unlikely that long traverses will get a line of resin anchors along them; what's far more likely is, for example on the route to OFD3, the route abseiling down and then prusikking back up is far more likely to get anchored one day - I have heard the same suggestion from a number of other people.

Also if there are kilometres of passage which are safe for novices, then isn't quite a big of OFD already a 'beginners' cave? It's a fantastic cave system; it's my favourite cave; but it's not some kilometre-deep Alpine meanderfest and (as you point out) with three entrances there aren't any _really_ hard committing trips (at least not by foreign standards). In many cases, there are excellent safe routes for novices with just one or two sketchy obstacles e.g. the Maypole step (which you can currently belay across using natural threads) or (until recently) the Low's Chain climb which many cavers (particularly shorter ones where bridging is much more difficult) struggled with.

I also do think some cavers confuse 'willingness to take risks' with 'competence'; I certainly choose to climb well below my standard when not attached to anything over a large hole.

No I was not suggesting that the OFDlll traverse should have a line of resin anchors but a alternative of descending and prusikking. We did a rescue practice in this manner and it went very well. It was your statement
I'd probably want to focus on safer routes for newer cavers first, but we might get there one day"
that concerned me most because I have no idea what you were referring to.

Jopo

 

[andrewmcleod]

No I was not suggesting that the OFDlll traverse should have a line of resin anchors but a alternative of descending and prusikking. We did a rescue practice in this manner and it went very well. It was your statement
I'd probably want to focus on safer routes for newer cavers first, but we might get there one day"
that concerned me most because I have no idea what you were referring to.

Jopo

Ah OK; I definitely wasn't including the OFDIII traverses in either 'safer' or 'for newer cavers' although I realise the ambiguity!

To be absolutely clear, even though I keep getting requests to bolt the OFDIII traverses or the Midnight Passage traverses I have no plans to suggest that anything is done with these bits of the cave at the moment.

PS important to note that SWCC is not installing resin anchors; SWCC has recommended to Cambrian Caving Council a number of locations that would benefit from resin anchors. CCC are then doing any anchor installations under the BCA scheme via Cambrian trained installers.